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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | word for wine in the original text? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68746 | ||
Dear Inmyheart, Following your reasoning on using context to determine the alcoholic content of wine, I offer the following two verses. Gen 9:21 "He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent." Alcoholic. Gen 14:18 "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High." Non-Alcoholic. A simple formula, but does it work? I have my doubts. The Hebrew word for "wine" is "yayin" which from an unused root meaning to effervesce. Webster's defines effervesce as 1. To be in a state of natural ebullition; to bubble and hiss, as fermenting liquors, or any fluid, when some part escapes in a gaseous form. Grape Juice does not go through this type of process (at least not to my knowledge). This is the reason for my first doubt. My second doubt arises from the difficulty that would arise in a society from using the same word to describe two VERY different beveridges. If one uses his imagination a bit, they must concede that your theory (I say theory, because it is yet to be proven as fact) has a serious flaw! Mom says to young Jonah "did you give your little sister the bottle of wine like I told you to?" Think about it. My third doubt arises from the reaction of the headwaiter in John 2 who exclaims "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now." Somehow I can't see anyone getting excited about grape juice (except Mr. Welch). Was the host so poor he had to offer only rotton grape juice? Afterall the guy did have servants as well as a headwaiter. But this is just a thought that troubles me. Perhaps you can dispel my doubt's by addressing them with your evidence. God Bless, John |
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2 | word for wine in the original text? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68790 | ||
Is. 16:10 uses the word to refer to the juice in the press. These are just a few examples where the context clearly indicates that the word can refer to something other than alcohol. Greetings John! It amazes me that the Forum is still debating whether or not some words translated as 'wine' could be unfermented! All we have to do is look at the verses as see that sometimes they clear are not refering to alcohol. Here are some examples using the word 'yayin' which you referenced in your previous post. Clearly, it can refer to a fermented beverage, but it also can refer to other things as well. Consider: 1) Jer. 40:10 - "I myself will stay at Mizpah to represent you before the Babylonians who come to us, but you are to harvest the wine, summer fruit and oil, and put them in your storage jars, and live in the towns you have taken over.?" Here the word refers to that which is harvested and then placed in jars. At the time it is harvested, it is still in grape form and is not fermented. 2) Num. 6:4 - "As long as he is a Nazirite, he must not eat anything that comes from the grapevine, not even the seeds or skins." Here the word 'yayin' refers to the actual grape vine. 3) Is. 16:10 - "Joy and gladness are taken away from the orchards; no one sings or shouts in the vineyards; no one treads out wine at the presses, for I have put an end to the shouting." Here, 'yayin' refer to the grapes being pressed at the vineyard. These are just a couple of quick examples to show that some words do have more than one meaning. If you look up the word studies I have posted you will see that there are a number of words translated as 'wine'. Some are always fermented, some are never fermented, and some can be either. My point is not to argue whether we should drink or not, my point is simply to finally get people to realize that the words translated as 'wine' in the Bible DON'T always refer to alcohol. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | word for wine in the original text? | Bible general Archive 1 | romans | 68795 | ||
Dear Tim Moran, Thanks for that explicit explanation on the issue involved. It is very helpful and well founded. But one thing though, I was surprised by your opening statement "I was amazed ..." I think there are people (just like me) who is not as knowledgeable as you in the Bible. I think we (Christians) should be gracious to people like me who ask questions (no matter how silly it seems to be to your/our views but for sure not to the one asking a question) and search for truth. Moreover, we should be thankful that Christians are keen in studying and knowing the truth; Christians should have an attitude of researching things not just agree and believe easily. KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE. Know why you agree or disagree - not just because somebody said it. Nothing personal, this is just a side comment on the issue of extending grace and understanding to Christians who are in searching of the truth. Personally, your note in this particular issue enlightens me. Thanks so much again. Brother in Christ, Romans |
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4 | word for wine in the original text? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68797 | ||
Greetings Romans! Welcome to the forum! I didn't mean to sound offensive. It's just that this issue has been discussed many times on this forum, and I know that I have personally posted several extensive word studies which demonstrate that the words translated as 'wine' don't always refer to an alcoholic beverage. The reason I used the word 'amazed' is that in spite of the word studies, various posts still try to make the point that 'the Bible said wine, so it must be wine' (where wine always means alcohol). Various posts also continue to poke fun at the view that some of the words translated as 'wine' can refer to grape juice. What I have tried to do is show from Scripture that some of these words can refer to the vine, the grapes, raisins, fresh juice, fermented juice, or even harder liquors. Anyway, enough beating of a dead horse! :-) Again, welcome to the forum! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | word for wine in the original text? | Bible general Archive 1 | romans | 68798 | ||
Dear Tim Moran, Thanks. Yes, I'm very new to this forum, I just joined yesterday. I am interested to the "word study" you posted as you had mentioned. I noticed in the Q and A site that there had a been a lot of things discussed. For me to look for your previous post would take sometime. If it's possible and not a bother to you, could I have a copy of it; could you post it again in the forum or would you like a personal email of mine? If not possible, I will try to locate in the forum site. Thanks much again. Brother in Christ, Roman |
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6 | word for wine in the original text? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68801 | ||
Greetings Roman! If you click on the 'search' option on the left hand side of the screen, and then enter 'Morant61' as the screen name to search for and enter 'yayin' as the word to search for, you will find the word studies I referred to in my previous post. I believe that you will enjoy the forum. I have not been here the longest, but I am one of the old-timers! :-) I made my first post on April 25, 2001 and have stuck around ever since. The part I enjoy as much as anything else is the friendships which have formed in my time on the forum. There are many on the forum who e-mail me, and vice versa, on a regular basis. I hope that your time here will be profitable and rewarding for both you and us! :-) p.s. - If you have any problems with the search, please let me know! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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