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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68559 | ||
Greetings Joe! My counter grenade toss would be: Which verse specifically commands us not to be gluttons? :-) I tossed the questions out in both fun and seriousness though. Is .005 blood alcohol not a sin, but .006 is a sin? Is drunkeness a state of being or a process? My position has always been that intoxication is the process of poisoning one's body and that the process itself is the sin, not the amount of poison put into the body. :-) But, as I said many times before, I count this as a personal conviction which I would never force on anyone else. I simply don't see any good in alcohol. It doesn't make me more Christ-like, nor more intelligent (I can't spare any brain cells), so I see no reason to do it and many possible reasons to avoid it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 68648 | ||
"My counter grenade toss would be: Which verse specifically commands us not to be gluttons? :-)" It has been a long day on the old Forum, hasn't it? For those of you taking Tim seriously, please see Proverbs 23:20-21 for starters. It connects gluttony and drunkenness as "twin sins." You also wrote: "I tossed the questions out in both fun and seriousness though. Is .005 blood alcohol not a sin, but .006 is a sin? Is drunkeness a state of being or a process?" I wouldn't be legalistic enough to identify a blood alcohol level any more than to set a calorie ceiling for gluttony. The key in both is moderation (not seeing how close one can get to the line without crossing it); and as you pointed out, it is never a sin NOT to casually drink alcohol. I think that drunkenness is both a state and a habit. Lastly, you wrote: "But, as I said many times before, I count this as a personal conviction which I would never force on anyone else. I simply don't see any good in alcohol. It doesn't make me more Christ-like, nor more intelligent (I can't spare any brain cells), so I see no reason to do it and many possible reasons to avoid it." This is the same way I feel about lima beans! This discussion comes up again at an interesting time for me, as I have been studying Romans 14 in my personal devotions and have recently gone through 1 Corinthians 8-10 with my wife. I consider this issue to be one that falls pretty squarely in the "adiaphora" category, and these four chapters have a lot to say about the proper use of our freedom in Christ, and how love for our brethren actually should act as a self-constraint on our liberty. Concern for Christ's honor and our brother's welfare should always be the governing principle in these gray areas. One thing that we can all agree on, hopefully: "Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." --1 Corinthians 10:31 --Joe! |
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3 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68653 | ||
Greetings Joe! We can definitely agree on your last point my friend! :-) But, you shouldn't dismiss my point about gluttony quite so quickly! :-) Depending on the translation one consults, there are only about 4 to 7 verses which mention gluttony at all and none of them contain a prohibition. They are all descriptive passages about the effects of gluttony and not one of them uses the word 'sin'. So, I do believe my point is valid. What other 'sin' in the Bible is ambigious, or left to personal standards? Can some of us lie a little more than others and be okay, while others have less tolerance for it? ;-) Regardless, there certainly isn't a clear Scripture either way about drinking or not drinking. My point in responding to these kinds of threads is simply to ensure that one position isn't arbritarily relegated to the 'stupid' argument category. ;-) I simply want to remind people that words are containers with which we pack a lot of meaning that may or may not have been intended originally. Well, I've need to get to bed. I have been up for about 33 of the last 36 hours and I am tired! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | jlpangilinan | 68656 | ||
You wrote"Regardless, there certainly isn't a clear Scripture either way about drinking or not drinking. My point in responding to these kinds of threads is simply to ensure that one position isn't arbritarily relegated to the 'stupid' argument category. ;-) I simply want to remind people that words are containers with which we pack a lot of meaning that may or may not have been intended originally." I believed that you can drink, but not to be drunk. My doctor advise me to take some red wine, because it is good for the heart and helps maintain blood colesterol. Even paul advise timothy to take some wine. 1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. so it is clear that drinking wine is not prohibited, but drunkeness did. God bless, Johnny |
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5 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68658 | ||
Greetings Johnny! It is good to hear from you my friend! Your example of Paul and Timothy is an excellent example of the problem I have been trying to address. We read 'use a little wine' and we automatically assume that Paul was telling Timothy to mix alcohol and water, simply because that is the meaning 'wine' has for us today. However, there is very good historical evidence that in the area of the world where Timothy was ministering, people would keep bags of grape jam which they would use to put into their drinking water to remove the acid from the water. It seems quite clear that this is the practice to which Paul is referring. Even it weren't, naturally fermented wine (very weak in alcohol content anyway) mixed with a larger part of water would not compare in any way to the distilled alcoholic beverages of today which can literally poison a person to death with in a very short amount of time. My point, over and over again, has simply been that we must not assume that Biblical words meant exactly the same as they do today. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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