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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68591 | ||
Dear Tim, I appreciate the diffulties that must face a pastor dealing with a wine bibber. But it is no different than any other sin. If the man is in the habit of overindulging, I would remind him that drunkards will not enter the Kingdom of heaven. I would also tell him to examine himself to see if he really is of the faith. Perhaps church discipline may have to be used. You asked "Is alcohol God given or the product of decay? Is the drinking of fermented liquids the proper use?" Our steaks are a product of killing an animal and then subjecting it's flesh to fire wich produces chemical changes which make us go mmumm good! :-) If wine was fine with Our Lord, it is fine with me as well. The Bible is not explicit regarding at what point a person crosses the line into intoxication. But believe me, the individual does. We have the common sense God gave to all mankind and we have the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. When do we cross the line when admireing a beautiful woman? We both know when admiration begins to turn to lust and we look away lest we sin against God. A mature person with any experience can tell when they have had enough. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Drunkards also tend to be habitual liars. I know this is true because I was a drunk until God called me. How can one get around the fact that Jesus spoke of His precious blood as wine (I do not say this lightly)? God the Father commanded drink offerings of wine. You can't get around these facts. John |
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2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68599 | ||
Greetings John! Actually, I prefer chicken to steak! :-) Of course, one difference between the two is that the Bible explicitly says that we were given animals to eat, but no where are we commanded or even told to drink fermented beverages! :-) By the way, where did Jesus refer to His blood as wine? I remember the communion cup being called the 'fruit of the vine', but I don't recall any place where His blood is called wine. Drink offerings? Yes! But, were they fermented or not? One cannot base that decision simply upon the translation 'wine'. If you do a word search for 'wine' and 'Morant61' you will find several exhaustive word studies which demonstrate the wide variety of meanings that these words had. Well, I have to go to small group now! See you later my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68607 | ||
Dear Tim, Your entire argument rests on the contention that wine may or may not have alcoholic content. Being that the Bible is not explicet in identiying which is which, it then reduces the question to an arguement of personal scuples. My objection is to those who would turn personal scruples into God's law. This is the mistake of which the Pharisees were guilty. Piling on law after law; and all man-made. Do not touch, do not taste and do not handle. Thanks, but, No thank you. I prefer the freedom of God's law to that of men. God Bless, John |
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4 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68655 | ||
Greetings John! I think you misunderstood my intent my friend! I have never tried to say 'this is the only Biblical position and you must agree with me'. I readily admit that much of this discussion does fall under the category of personal scruples. My point has always been to simply 'proclaim' that many have erroneously maintained that 'wine' in the Bible always means an alcoholic beverage. The approach usually sounds something like: "We all know that wine can't be grape juice (wink wink)". Yet, the meaning of the original terms are never actually dealt with. My point has always simply been: Do the hard work to investigate the meanings of words, don't just assume that 'wine' in the Bible always means exactly what 'wine' means today. I have never found a single verse which prohibits the drinking of any alcohol, but neither have I found a single verse which commands us to drink alcohol. But as Christians, we certainly do have to weigh the possible costs and benefits of our actions. Will drinking alcohol glorify Christ? Will it make me more in control of my actions? Will it help me physically? Will it help my testimony? I honestly don't think that the answer to any of these questions is yes. But, that is just the position I have adopted as my own! :-) When asked as a pastor, I lay out both sides of the arguement, state where I have arrived, and advise prayer to seek God's will for their lives. I never say, 'Here is what you must do!'. I hope that clears up my position my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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