Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68542 | ||
Dear Retxar, You asked: " Does any verse in the bible say wine that contains intoxicationg alcohol is good for anything other than medicinal purposes?" The answer is yes: Ps 104:15 And wine which makes man's heart glad, So that he may make his face glisten with oil, And food which sustains man's heart. Evidently Jesus did not condemn wine, for He said: Luke 5:39 "And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, 'The old is good enough." If He had been referring to grape juice He would not have said "And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new...". Who wants old grape juice? On the other hand win that is old (aged) is generally to be preferred over new (not aged). It is not my desire to promote drinking of alcoholic beveridges among christians. I am simply defending one's God given right to enjoy a glass of beer or wine without being accused of breaking a commandment. But if you can prove (from the Scripture) that even the moderate use of wine is a sin, then I must repent and obey. Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. If I were in your company of a brother and knew that He considered drinking to be sinful, I would refrain from doing so in his presence. I would not want my liberty in Christ to be the reason of his stumbling. But note! Paul does not forbid drinking; he does not say that the drinker might stumble, but that the brother might stumble. If you believe drinking to be a sin and you drink, then you have sinned. You have stumbled. I would not want to be a cause of that. I, on the other hand, am conviced that it is not a sin, therefore my drinking is not a sin. It's up to you to prove that it is a sin. So show me your proof texts and we can discuss them. God Bless, John |
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2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68566 | ||
Greetings John! Do you mind if I butt in again? At least we're talking about something other than the C/A debate! :-) Your quote of Ps. 104:15 is an excellent example of the difficulty that we have in discussin this issue. Modern readers read the word 'wine' and automatically think it is referring to an alcoholic beverage. However, nothing in the text indicates that this is the case. The other two elements mentioned in this verse (oil and bread) refer to produce. The case can be made that Ps. 104:15 is simply speaking of God's provision of the necesities of life, not the appropriateness of drinking fermented beverages. These same word (# 3196) is used in a variety of ways. It is commended in some verses and condemned in others. I believe that this failure to distinguish between the meanings of the original words are the primary cause of much of the disagreement over this issue. For instance, you refer to the old 'grape juice' argument, but did you realize that the generic Greek term for 'wine' is actually used to refer to Grape Jam in the 1st century? So, the grape juice approach is definitely as far fetched as most try to make it appear. As to your final challenge to Retxar, let me counter challenge you my friend to produce the verse of Scripture which says that it is okay to drink alcohol! :-) The best I have even seen is an implied consent! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 68572 | ||
Excellent points, Tim! Neither my wife nor I drink alcohol in any form as a matter of personal choice. It is extremely difficult for us to endorse the use -- and certainly not the abuse -- of alcohol, when we reflect that 13 years ago our son, a college student just under 21 years old, was killed by a drunk driver. We have been hard pressed to justify any usage of alcohol, and unable to discover just what place booze deserves to have in our lives, as we endeavor to lead a Christ-centered life. Frankly, we don't like it, don't want it, and clearly don't need it. We wouldn't drink it, even if it were free, which it certainly isn't. It costs money that we can put to nobler use. But grape juice? We love that. Now you know what you can send us for Christmas! :-) --Hank | ||||||
4 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68587 | ||
Greetings Hank! Excellent points my friend! I agree that I simply can't find any redeeming quality to alcohol that would justify its use. I do see long trails of broken lifes and shattered dreams though. I'm really sorry about your son my friend! p.s. - Do you like Welch's or generic grape juice? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 68595 | ||
Generic grape juice will be fine, Tim. As a matter of fact, I've never drunk the juice of the Generic grape and would like to try it. Do you happen to know where Generic grapes are grown? The San Generic Valley of California would be my first guess. --Hank | ||||||
6 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68600 | ||
Greetings Hank! In all seriousness, I've had people ask me why, if Jesus created grape juice, people were able to tell the difference. Have you ever tried cheap grape juice? It is nasty stuff. Taste test some good quality juice along with some generic juice and one can readily see how the people at the wedding feast could have know the difference. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 68603 | ||
You're absolutely right, Tim. I was pulling your leg, of course, about generic grape juice. I have tried some of the bargain-basement varieties that were horrid -- tasted like ground up, warmed-over raisins blended with swamp water. There is a distinct difference -- and not just in price alone -- between quality grape juice and the yukky stuff. --Hank | ||||||