Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 68464 | ||
Actually Jesus did make grape juice, as wine is fermented over time by the process of decay, which cannot be present in new wine. | ||||||
2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68478 | ||
Dear Retxar, Your answer implies that Jesus was not able to miraculously ferment the grape juice. I contend that if He could make grapejuice without grapes, then He could ferment them without time being a factor. I was not surprised that the verse that Ron quoted was ignored. If one wants to convince a Bible believer, he must answer legitimate points posed by those who disagree with him. Ron cited: "1Tm:3:8: Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Here, there rules for becoming a deacon in the early church were established. Pay attention to what it says about wine: "not given to much wine." Is the requirement, "must not ever drink any wine at all?" Read it again if you're unsure." Every now and then the church jumps on the "world's bandwagon". Alcoholic beveridges were suddenly percieved as sinful to drink, when in the 19th century, society began to react to a wave of drunkeness that was becoming a threat to familys. Many chuches responded by preaching anti-alcohol sermons and proclaiming wine or beer as a tool of the devil! In our own day we see a similar phenomenon taking place as a result of the femminist movement. All of a sudden (relatively speaking) it is not only scripturally lawful but even poltically correct to install female pastors and elders in the church! I guess it makes sense to those who think that the best way to save the "world" is to show it that we are not so radical as they think we are. It also is good "PR" and could swell membership roles! I am not so much concerned about the issue of alcohol as I am about adding man-made rules to God's Law. Christian liberty is to be cherished and defended. Legalistic bondage is to be shunned. Of course if you can correct me by showing me my error from Scripture, I will apologize gratefully. I have been wrong before. John |
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3 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 68489 | ||
I quess my thinking is why would Jesus create something with rot and decay for the purpose of it containing a poison to alter the thinking of those who cosume it? Could Jesus not create it without the rot and decay and thus without the poison? Not given to much wine? The only place I can find wine spoken of in positive light in scripture is for medicinal purposes, which would certainly mean "not much", if one thinks that “not at all” is wrong. What about that husband of one wife thing? Using the same line of reasoning, must we also conclude this means others can have more than one wife, as others on the forum are trying to convince us of? I will not be dogmatic about this issue, and believe me, I have fought the demon of legalistic bondage many times, so I am not trying to make up some rules that will make someone “more spiritual”. However, one thing I cannot ignore about this issue is the fact that alcohol was always forbidden for kings, priest, and prophets. Jesus was all three, and we as believers have been made kings and priests to the Father by Jesus (Rev 1:6), so that would also apply to us. In light of the fact that alcohol brings so much pain and destruction upon people, I would think it at least unwise for any Christian to consume. I have no desire to drink alcohol, so maybe that is why I see this issue as I do. But if I had that desire (to consume alcohol) the issues I have brought up would be major hurdles for me to clear in order to put alcohol consumption in the category of things that God is pleased for Christians to participate in. Patiently waiting for that grateful apology! (just kidding bro) retxar |
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4 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68501 | ||
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High. Gen 27:28 Now may God give you of the dew of heaven, And of the fatness of the earth, And an abundance of grain and new wine; Ex 29:40 and there shall be one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with one-fourth of a hin of beaten oil, and one-fourth of a hin of wine for a drink offering with one lamb. Num 15:5 and you shall prepare wine for the drink offering, one-fourth of a hin, with the burnt offering or for the sacrifice, for each lamb. I could go on and on, but I think you get my point. There are many verses that portray wine as a good thing when it is consumed as a blessing from God and not taken in excess. The same is true for food. It is a blessing, but gluttoney (as is drunkeness) a sin. Ps 104:15 And wine which makes man's heart glad, So that he may make his face glisten with oil, And food which sustains man's heart. 1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. You wrote: "Not given to much wine? The only place I can find wine spoken of in positive light in scripture is for medicinal purposes," ...I suggest you do a word search... "which would certainly mean "not much", ...having shown through Scripture that wine is indeed used for worship and pure pleasure, your arguement is made invalid... "if one thinks that “not at all” is wrong. What about that husband of one wife thing? Using the same line of reasoning, must we also conclude this means others can have more than one wife, as others on the forum are trying to convince us of?" ...No. God said that an elder should be the husband of ONE wife, and that an elder should not be one who drinks to excess. The meaning is clear. Why attempt to cloud simple language?... You'll have to do better than that to change my mind. :-) Everything that God has given us is good. It is when we abuse it's God-given use, or are unthankful that it becomes a curse. Wine is good but drunkeness is evil. The same can be said of food, money, love, sex, work, laughter etc. John |
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5 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 68516 | ||
There are plenty of things in the bible that can be referred to as "wine" without meaning intoxicatiing alcohol. Does any verse in the bible say wine that contains intoxicationg alcohol is good for anything other than medicinal purposes? retxar |
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6 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Rob Aronson | 68522 | ||
Retxar, I say this with nothing but love for you, but you seem to be missing the point despite a myriad of applicable verses being revealed that have shed light on this matter. Ask yourself this: are your objections to the scriptures we've cited based on other scriptures, or your own objections, and understanding? Take care, -Rob |
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7 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 68571 | ||
I object to alcohol consumption personally, and also to anyone that cares to ask, on the grounds that it is forbidden in scripture for kings, priest, and prophets (Pro 31:4, Lev 10:9, Isa 28:7, Eze 44:21), and thus NT believers (Rev 1:6, Rev 5:10, Rev 20:6, Isa 61:6, 1Pe 2:5). Why would I want to risk being disqualified for that? Why would I want to put a flammable liquid in my body, which outside an alcoholic beverage container has the word “poison” written on it, a skull and cross bones, the 1-800 poison control hotline number, and the urgent instructions to call 911 and get to the nearest hospital emergency room pronto in case of ingestion? How much sense does that make? Did God really design the human body to endure such abuse? If I assume (falsely) that all references in scripture to “wine” are referring to the fermented fruit of the vine that contains alcohol, as you have, I can clearly see the point you are trying to make. However, when I do that, I have conflicting scripture to sort out that I do not know how to handle. How do you deal with that? do not be drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit! retxar |
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8 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 68575 | ||
Retxar, you, like me, have probably heard all the "good reasons" for tipping the bottle -- things like being socialable, unwinding, being able to relax at the end of a tough day at the office, and even that tired old claim that it promotes health (THAT takes a while for them to explain!). And then there's the argument that the "responsible" use of alcohol as a beverage won't lead to addiction (alcoholism). But no alcoholic I've ever seen deliberately set out to become one. And I've worked with heavy drinkers, problem drinkers, and alcoholics. There is no group that I know of who are better at denial than boozers. They deny they have any problem with the sauce. They're like the guy standing at a bar guzzling one beer after another. Said he: "My altake of incohol doesn't really bither me a bot, but it does seem the drunker I stand here the longer I get." --Hank | ||||||
9 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 68659 | ||
Thanks Hank, The morrier you post, the funnier you get! retxar |
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