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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Rob Aronson | 68475 | ||
And the process of forming a planet, vegetation, animals, and the first man took billions of years, right? Look folks, Jesus performed a miracle by turning water into wine--not grape juice. If the Bible says wine, I'm inclined to believe it instead of make up excuses because we think there is something evil about wine (which I've shown with my last post to be a mistaken assumption). Joh:2:9: When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, Joh:2:10: And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.(KJV) John 2:9 When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter *called the bridegroom, John 2:10 and *said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when (the people) have drunk freely, (then he serves) the poorer (wine;) (but) you have kept the good wine until now." (NASB) I'm fond of saying, we have to look at what the Bible says--not what we want it to say, because times have changed, or we misunderstand. Take care, -Rob |
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2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68481 | ||
Greetings Ron! When you speak of 'mistaken assumptions', one which is frequently made is that every word in the Bible which is translated 'wine' means an 'alcoholic beverage'. I'm not going to repost my research, but if you do a search for 'wine' and 'Morant61', you will find several posts I have made on this issue. My point isn't to get back into this debate, but simply to remind people that many words are translated 'wine', but not all of them refer to alcohol. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Rob Aronson | 68519 | ||
Hi Tim, I saw your post earlier from the other thread, but after the time that I originally posted. And yes, I'm aware of the translation concerns, but I was speaking more about people being mistaken to think that drinking alcohol (in any amount) is the sin. To give credance to my claim, I cited the rules for becoming a deacon established in the early church which relate that a deacon should not be given to much wine--it doesn't say "no wine at all", but "to much wine." Drinking is not the sin, drunkeness is. Eating is not the sin, gluttony is. Admiration of beauty is not the sin, lust is. These were my points; however today many seem to think that drinking even one drop of alcohol is a sin. I personally believe that Jesus made a pure wine at the wedding, the taste and effects of which we cannot probably comprehend. People recognized it as wine by taste, but were amazed about its extraordinary qualities. The mistaken assumption (and the charge leveled at Jesus) is that Jesus made wine, and drinking is a sin; therefore making Jesus a sinner and contributing to the sin of others. This is certainly not so, and my clarification about a drink vs drunkeness certainly helps a person to understand much better than saying that Jesus made grape juice (which sounds like a side-step to the alcohol question). If he did make grape juice, perfect; but understand that having a glass of wine with a meal is an ancient tradition and no more evil that taking a bite of steak. Take care (I always enjoy your posts, Tim), -Rob |
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4 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 68538 | ||
Greetings Rob! Thanks for the response and welcome to the forum! :-) As I've stated before, there certainly isn't any one Scripture which says, 'Never drink any alcohol'! Yet, neither is there any that says that it is okay to drink alcohol. I leave it between an individual and God, but my personal feeling is that it is sin. I base that on the various Scriptures which do speak very negatively of alcohol, on it's effects upon the will, and upon it's devastating effects upon lives. I've seen firsthand in my own family what drugs and alcohol can do, but I've dealt with that before. :-( I don't get involved in this issue to really promote just one view, but usually just to make clear that 'wine' is our word (along with all the conotations associated with that word in our culture), the original word was 'oinos'. I know that you didn't make this point, but many have tried to make it sound silly to say that 'oinos' could have been grape juice. However, the word is a very generic term which can refer to many things: fresh fruit on the vine, freshly pressed juice, crops, or fermented drinks. The question then becomes, what kind of 'oinos' did Jesus make? Did He make a beverage which deadens one's inhibititions? Did He make a beverage which kills brain cells, ect, ect, ect...? One fun point though, notice that the text of 1 Tim. 3:8 doesn't say 'not given to too much wine', but 'not given to much wine'! :-) There is a difference. Well, I have to run! I look forward to reading your future posts my new friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Rob Aronson | 68728 | ||
Tim, I'm certainly not implying that 1 Timothy 3:8 is ambiguous. I think it speaks clearly through all versions, and consistently: 1Tm:3:8: Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;(KJV) 8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, (NKJV) 8 (1) Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, (2) or addicted to much wine (3) or fond of sordid gain, (NASB) 8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. (NIV) I'm not drastically attempting to promote one view either. What I've done (and convincingly using applicable scriptures) is to show that drinking wine is not expressly forbidden, neither is it inherently evil--it's the over indulgence, which is drunkeness. However it is good that we have this discussion (even if it's a little drawn out) because it reveals the nature of sin. As I said before, is admiring beauty in a woman a sin? No, but to lust is. Is eating food a sin? No, but to be gluttonous is. Is drinking a glass of wine with a meal a sin? No, but to become drunk is. Now here is sin revealed and the confusion surrounding it. Let's look at eating. Eating is not a sin. When you begin to eat, you satisfy the needs of the body to sustain your life; still nothing wrong here. When your body is already satisfied, yet you continue to eat because the food tastes good (as with pizza, I used earlier), gluttony sets in--and there is sin. Now, there is a gray area between "satisfied" and "gluttonous." Within this gray area, confusion set in. This is the beginning of sin, which tempts us. If we give in to it, there is sin manifested; and whether it's eating food, admiring the beauty of a woman, or drinking a glass of wine this process holds true to form. Take care, -Rob |
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