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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Been to every church? | Bible general Archive 1 | charis | 39731 | ||
Dear Raven, Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus! I am one of 'those people.' :-) What language? I don't know. Is it nonsense or 'made up?' I don't believe so. I will only say that I have never 'made up' anything, and was not 'taught' to say the words that come forth. Is it language? Yes. Is it known? To God, certainly, to me, no, to others, I don't know. As to whether you have shown that 1 Corinthians 13 and 14 to deny a present-day tongues experience, I think you have merely stated your opinion. Your (only) key Scripture: "...but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away." 1 Corintians 13:10 NASB. Some believe that 'the perfect' refers to the Bible. The problem is that even though the Bible is perfect, man's interpretation is far from perfect. (for instance, I hardly believe that you have 'perfect' understanding of the Bible, and I would make such a foolish assumption) Other scholars believe that spiritual gifts will cease upon the return of Christ, as He is 'Perfection.' Some are even foolhardy enough to think that their church tradition is 'perfect.' This last one doesn't even bear comment. Me? I prefer the second interpretation. My own eyes tell me that simply having the Bible has not made the church perfect, and I have not yet seen a perfect church tradition. Friend, it seems to me that your main concern is the disorderly conduct of 'tongues' churches. I assure you that my own church practices order. We do not 'babble' constantly, nor do we 'show off.' We do not 'require' tongues for salvation or membership. It is a gift from God, given according to His will. Guidelines for the speaking of tongues are written in the Word. Read the Bible? Yes, I have. I must say that your wording implies that I have not read the Bible, and only listen to men. I assure you that I have come to the convictions I hold by reading the Bible thoroughly, and studying it personally, and studying the commentary of a broad spectrum of Biblical scholars. I also pray and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and always compare my thoughts and actions to the Word of God. Struck a chord? :-) Hurt feelings? No, I am just fine. I often say, 'Takaburi-mono wa shiawase da ne!' (bigots are happy people!) I believe it is good to have strong opinions, but to have strong opinions at the expense of another's righteousness is just arrogance. It appears that you are implying that the 'one Gospel' is YOUR Gospel. Hmmmm... Shiawase da ne! :-) In Christ Jesus, charis |
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2 | Been to every church? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 39806 | ||
Thank you for proving my point! Your frien in Christ, Raven |
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3 | Which point? | Bible general Archive 1 | charis | 39871 | ||
Dear Raven (Roy), Greetings in the name of Jesus! Friend, which point? You have made several, but two stand out. 1) Tongues do not save, and 2) Tongues have ceased. 1) I don't think you can say that I proved your point on this one, just that we agree that tongues do not save us. :-) However, your key assertion differs from mine. You use point 2) to 'prove' point 1), while I would prefer to state that the Biblical 'lowest common denominator' for salvation is faith toward God, specifically, saved by grace through faith. 2) Perhaps my morning coffee has not yet been in my system long enough to 'inspire' my understanding, but I fail to see how I could have proved this point! :-) Your entire argument pivots on exactly one portion of Scripture (1 Corinthians 13:8-10) which is speaking of the timelessness of God's love. If this is your way of saying you don't want to talk about it any longer, I will understand. I would like to reiterate one question, though. Have you been to every church, or at least a broad enough spectrum of tongue-speaking churches to make the rather bigoted statement that all are our of order? Or did you get your opinion about them from TV, or perhaps from the opinions of others? The reason I ask is that if you don't want to be involved in such churches, then do not. If you don't want to see silly TV churches, turn it off. If you are 'perfectly' satisfied with your present church experience, great! But if you are just 'against' tongues from limited experience, or because of a bad experience, then your motives and conclusions are not Biblical. You see, my friend, I have also seen the damage done by abusers of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I have also seen a lot of 'dried up religious husks' of churches full of spite and bigotry from their zeal to deny the same gifts of the Holy Spirit. Both are terrible abuses of the abundant life that Jesus has given His people. MY point is that there are some balanced 'tongues' churches, and some balanced 'non-tongues' (NOT 'anti-tongues') churches. Which category might you fall into? I pray that you don't prove MY point! :-) Blessings and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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4 | Which point? | Bible general Archive 1 | Jesusman | 40180 | ||
Hello Charis, To add to your point, Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:10 says that "when that which is perfect has come that which partial shall be done away." If this is in reference to his comments in 13:8, then the questions must be asked, "Has the 'perfect' come?" and "What is 'perfect'?" While the Bible maybe considered perfect by many, I doubt that is what Paul is referring to. The only one which is identified as perfect is Jesus. Especially considering that Paul has been speaking about being members of Christ's body for about two to three chapters prior to this verse, and continues to speak about Christ until the end of the epistle of 1 Corinthians. Our relationship to Christ is the whole focus behind the last six chapters of 1 corinthians. Why change that for one small verse, speak about the Bible's completion, and return back to talking about Christ's body? It doesn't fit. What does fit is that the spiritual gifts will still be in use when the Church is reunited with the Savior, hence that which is perfect. Jesus Loves You! Jesusman |
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