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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 36682 | ||
Greetings Raven! One of my problems with the position that baptism is necessary for salvation is that we are doing exactly what the Judaizers did in the early church. They taught that it took faith plus circumscision to be saved. The arguments they used are exactly the arguments used by those who hold to the faith plus baptism position. There are many Scriptures which specify that salvation is through faith alone. 1) Rom. 10:9-10 says, "That if you confess with your mouth, ‘‘Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." 2) Rom. 10:13 - "for, ‘‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”" 3) Eph. 2:8-9 says, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast." 4) 2 Thess. 2:3 - " But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth." 5) 2 Tim. 1:9 - " who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time," 6) Titus 3:5 - "he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit," 7) Heb. 10:39 - "But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." We can go on and on! The clincher is probably Acts 16:30-31. There, the jailer specifically asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved. They responded, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” Later, we are told that the jailer and his family were baptized, but nothing is said in their reply about baptism being necessary for salvation. The danger of this belief is illustrated in your final paragraph. You said: "To sum it up theres only to things to ask about a person after they die to know if they are saved. 1. Did they obey the Gospel? 2. Did they live a Christian life?" I'm assuming that by number 1 you mean accepting Christ. However, note number 2. Is our salvation predicated upon how we lived? This is exactly what Eph. 2:8-9 and the other verses above specifically taught against. We are not saved based on works or actions. No matter how one cuts it, faith plus baptism equals faith plus works. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Cyclist | 36688 | ||
Dear Tim Moran, Does the following passage relate to our discussion? Is baptism showing our faith by works? James 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 2 James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 3 James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. Always in Christ, Cyclist |
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3 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 36830 | ||
Greetings Cyclist! Thanks for the response and the positive attitude! :-) Yes, I think baptism is an example of showing our faith by our works. However, this isn't really what those who believe in the necessity of baptism are saying. There are two ways of expressing the relationship between baptism and salvation. 1) Faith leads to salvation which produces works. This what Eph. 2:8-10 says. This is how I view baptism. Faith alone leads to salvation. Then, once we are saved, we will begin to do the works to which God has called us - including baptism. Notice the distinction here though. It is salvation which produces the works, not the works which produce salvation. 2) Faith plus baptism leads to salvation. This is what I understand those who believe in baptismal regeneration to be saying. If you aren't baptized, then you aren't saved. Here, works is part of what leads to salvation. This is clearly taught against in Scripture. So, yes, I would include baptism in the works of faith mentioned by James. I would also include many other things. However, these works spring from the completed work of salvation, they do not lead to salvation. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Cyclist | 36835 | ||
Dear brother in Christ, Tim Moran, Thank you for taking time and giving attention to this subjest of baptism. I was baptized after being saved (having the born again experience). Those whom the Lord used to lead me to him stressed to me the importance of repentance, excepting Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, and transformation by the renewing of my mind. It wasn't until about 1 year after salvation that I was baptized. I attended a small church at that time and was baptized in a lake. It was a wonderful experience! Even though we may view this as a work, I enjoyed it as an unexplainable experience. I was filled with the joy of the Lord! I think that I had a wonderful baptismal experience and would recomend to every one that they view baptism as bonding with Christ. A "work" that is rewarding! This is my final post on this subject. Thanks to all of you who helped me to learn more about baptism; RAVEN, John Reformed, Hank, tuli, Emmaus, wordoer, Reformer Joe, Eagleone, and childoftheking. You have helped me grow! God Bless each one of you! Your brother always in Christ Jesus, Cyclist |
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