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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 36545 | ||
Emmaus, being the Arkansas Dunderhead of 2002, I have no small problem absorbing the statement, "Baptism is necessary for salvation" -- but a more gargantuan problem with the statement when it is followed by a litany of exceptions. Now I assume that the exceptions you've listed are bona fide doctrine of the Catholic church, but where do they find authority for these teachings? --Hank | ||||||
2 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 36556 | ||
Hank, As indicated in the cited passage John 3:5, Mark 16:16 the Lord assures us of the necessity of baptism. Catholics are not the only ones who hold to baptismal regeneration. There are many Protestants who hold to the same using the same passages. On the other hand we know that God is not bound by his commands to us and the means he gives us to obtain his grace. He himself can do what he wants when he wants as demonstrated by the thief on the cross. "We have rules he has rights" to twist the Outback Steakhouse commerical. You might say baptism is necesarry for us but not necessary for God. Catholics consider the sacraments encounters with Christ and therefore moments of grace. But we can encounter him outside the sacraments also. In fact sometimes he jerks us up when and where we least expect it. But he also lets us know where to find him when we are looking for him and not running or hiding. Would Jesus have commanded us to do something that was pointless and unnecessary and without effect? That doesn't sound like Jesus. Just a few passages to consider: John 3:5, 22 born of water and the Spirit, the apostles start baptizing. Titus 3:5 saved us through bath of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2;37-38 repent be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 22:16 get up and be baptized and sins washed away. 1Cor 6:11 your were washed, sanctified and justified. Romans 6:4 baptized into death; live in newness of life. 1 Peter 3:21 baptism...now save you. Hebrews 10:22 heart spinkled, bodies washed in pure water. Emmaus |
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3 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 36586 | ||
Thank you, Emmaus. As you know, we of the Southern Baptist communion hold that water baptism by immersion and the Lord's Supper are church ordinances and that neither is salvific. Don't you and your fellow Catholics, in viewing baptism and mass (Lord's Supper) as sacraments, hold that both are salvific?..... Yes, I'm aware that some Protestant churches teach salvation by water baptism. I grew up in one of them! --Hank | ||||||
4 | Raven and John Reformed, Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 36613 | ||
Hank, Yes, we do view the sacraments as salvific in that they are encounters with Christ. Baptism is is called a sacrament of the dead because it conveys the grace of God which bring us from spiritual death to new life in Christ. In the old Baltimore cathecism a sacrament is defined as "a sign instituted by God to give grace." It is not just a symbol but a symbol that effects what it symbolizes by the action of God's grace. Another example that makes this explicitly clear is the Annointing of the Sick and Confession is in James 5:14-16 14: Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15: and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16: Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. It is important to note that it is the work of God and his grace through the sacraments that saves us not our work in the sacrament. We are to be disposed by prayer and repentence to receive God's grace. And even that disposition is a work of grace. Emmaus |
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