Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | Searcher56 | 58163 | ||
Scripture ... Matt 18:15-20; 1 Cor 5:1-13; 2 Cor 2:5-11; 1 Tim 3:1-7; Tit 1:6-9 ... Ivory313, greetings. The Bible is clear. The pastor must step now today. Go to him according to Matthew 18:15-20, even if it is public ... pointing out the qualifcations of an overseer (1 Tim 3:1-7; Tit 1:6-9), which he is and ask him never to be an overseer (pastor) again. While he is forgiven, he has lost his right to lead. If he doesn't want to step down, continue to follow Matthew 18:15-20, by getting one or two others who know the FACTS ... to ask him to step down. Then depending on the type of rule, ask the elders or the comgregation to vote him out ... and stop paying him. There should be no compensation. If he knew about the two, two years ago, he was lax, as Paul said (1 Cor 5:1-13). While this brother may of been restored (2 Cor 2:5-11), he was not a leader. You should only leave if the pastor or those who vote on him refuse to cast him out. I've seen this happen. Searcher |
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2 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58340 | ||
The devil is going to go after those who are doing God's work. That's a fact. When we are choosing leaders, I would say yes, to Timothy and Titus verses. But where does it say NEVER again if you fall??? I have been taught since being saved to never say 'never and God' in the same sentence. I have been taught that if I repent my sins and am forgiven. I am a new creature. God literally forgets my sins once I have repented and He has forgiven. If I am reading you correctly, you are saying forgiving him doesn't mean restoring him. Forgive him, but strip him of the fruits of being forgiven. If his repentence is sincere, and their forgiveness is sincere, where is your scriptural basis for this punishment after repentance and forgiveness? Especially since such a punishment would rob him of his livelihood, his home, his wife's livelihood, and his children's home? What message would such a course teach his children and those seminary students about repentence and forgiveness? The Bible doesn't say forgive and punish, and just because he wasn't a leader doesn't mean we should start ad-libbing. If it's not in the Word, don't do it. Wouldn't the devil love it if this man of God was restored, yet barred from continuing to teach the Good News because we put conditions on the forgiveness!!! |
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3 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | Emmaus | 58378 | ||
Jesusfreak508, You asked: "Forgive him, but strip him of the fruits of being forgiven. If his repentence is sincere, and their forgiveness is sincere, where is your scriptural basis for this punishment after repentance and forgiveness?" Even sins that have been forgiven can have lasting consequences in our earthly lives if not the next. There are many comtemporary examples that could be cited such as the health effects of drug addition which has been overcome and forgiven. But for a scriptural example of God Himself foloowing this pattern see 2 Samuel 12:1-18 "1: And the LORD sent Nathan to David. He came to him, and said to him, "There were two men in a certain city, the one rich and the other poor. 2: The rich man had very many flocks and herds; 3: but the poor man had nothing but one little ewe lamb, which he had bought. And he brought it up, and it grew up with him and with his children; it used to eat of his morsel, and drink from his cup, and lie in his bosom, and it was like a daughter to him. 4: Now there came a traveler to the rich man, and he was unwilling to take one of his own flock or herd to prepare for the wayfarer who had come to him, but he took the poor man's lamb, and prepared it for the man who had come to him." 5: Then David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, "As the LORD lives, the man who has done this deserves to die; 6: and he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity." 7: Nathan said to David, "You are the man. Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, "I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you out of the hand of Saul; 8: and I gave you your master's house, and your master's wives into your bosom, and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah; and if this were too little, I would add to you as much more. 9: Why have you despised the word of the LORD, to do what is evil in his sight? You have smitten Uri'ah the Hittite with the sword, and have taken his wife to be your wife, and have slain him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10: Now therefore the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised me, and have taken the wife of Uri'ah the Hittite to be your wife." 11: Thus says the LORD, "Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12: For you did it secretly; but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun."" 13: David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14: Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the LORD, the child that is born to you shall die." 15: Then Nathan went to his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uri'ah's wife bore to David, and it became sick. 16: David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in and lay all night upon the ground. 17: And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18: On the seventh day the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead; for they said, "Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him, and he did not listen to us; how then can we say to him the child is dead? " Emmaus |
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4 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58547 | ||
I'm very aware of the OT writings of 2 Samuel. But this man is not OT covenant. He's a Christian pastor and as such, he is covered under the new covenant. Jesus said render unto Caesar, and if this man had broken a civil or criminal law, I would say absolutely, you must take your punishment. But this is a SIN and Jesus specifically died and was resurrected to cover sin if there was repentence. | ||||||