Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | dodoy | 220024 | ||
Dear Pastor Beja, Sorry to have just shown up. I need to rush my brother to the hospital and have just come home. Well anyway, thanks for what you posted. The following would hopefully explain what you want me to explain: 1. On why a person can be saved from sin yet not receive eternal life. Salvation from sin is God's work FOR man, that He accomplished through Christ. This is purely grace (Eph 2:4-9); not an iota of man's participation. Pls note that when man sinned, sin separated man from God (Isa 59:2), because before sin came man is not separated from God. There is then a need to remove what separates man from God, so that man might be reunited with God again. This, man can not do, so God took the initiative (Rom 5:2) and reconciled the world to Himself through Christ(2 Cor 5: 18,19). Because of that death on the cross, the sin-problem had been absolutely solved for all men (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Rom 6:7). All men are now part of the body of Christ (Eph 2:11-19). Unless removed by Christ Himself, man can not get his own self detached from being part of the body of Christ (John 10:28,29). Unless detached from Christ's body, man is bound to spend eternity with God. But is there a possibility that a man might be removed by Christ from being part of His body? Yes. Christ Himself mentioned in Rev 3:5 that only the names of overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life. Blotting out of any name from the book of life can not occur if that name is not initially in the book of life. Rev 17:8 suggests that, with the exception of beast-worshippers, the writing of names in the book of life was from the foundation of the world. This has to be because Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:19,20). The blotting out of a man's name from the book of life effectively removes him as part of the body of Christ. To recapitulate, man was saved from sin through Christ, became part of His body with his name written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Bur if Christ blots his name from the book of life, he no longer is a part of Christ's body, and he will not inherit eternal life, instead his final destiny is the lake of fire (Rev 20:15). I hope this answers question #1. 2. On Question #2. Let me first quote Romans 2:3-11 (NASB): "3 And do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment upon those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to every man who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God." These verses fully explain what I mean. But to be just specific relative to your question, yes, our righteousnes is not our own. It is counted to us through faith. A true believer is one who overcomes evil with good (John 14:12). The strength to overcome, the will to overcome, the opportunity to overcome - all these are from God. Our part is in using what God has given. Overcoming is the result of our positive response to God's work IN man (Phil 2:12, 13). This is in contrast to man's being saved from sin, which is God's work FOR man. Sincerely, dodoy |
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2 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | DocTrinsograce | 220028 | ||
Hi, Dodoy... What you are espousing is called synergistic soterism: universal atonement and libertarian free will. It was first espoused in Christendom by a monk named Pelagius Bretto -- hence it is often called Pelagianism. The theological view of libertarians are held by Socinians, Molinists, Arminians, and Open Theists. (The Romanists hold a view very similar to yours called Semi-pelagianism, denying any real effect of original sin on human nature.) In Pelagianism, human nature is neither good nor bad, but simply ignorant -- given the facts, man is able to choose salvation. Hence, man is in need of a tutor. In Semipelagianism, human nature is neither good nor bad, but simply injured -- given healing, man is able to choose salvation. Hence, man is in need of a physician. By contrast, orthodox Monergism asserts the Biblical perspective that man is dead (Ephesians 2:1, Colossians 2:13), lacking the moral ability to change his nature (Jeremiah 13:23) -- given regeneration (2 Corinthians 5:17) man is able to walk in righteousness (1 John 3:7, 10). Hence, man is in need of a Savior (John 1:13; 6:44). I now understand your reticence to respond to my questions, or tell us with whom you are studying. The presupposition that allows you to build your philosophical structure, is a heterodoxical definition of sin. Milliard Erickson renders a very good summation of the orthodox Christian definition: "Sin is any lack of conformity, active or passive, to the moral law of God. This may be a matter of act, of thought, or of inner disposition or state." You see, man is born in sin with an evil and wicked nature (Matthew 7:11, Ephesians 2:3), sharing the same evil nature as Satan (John 8:44). Man sins by choice and by the motivation of his very nature. Sin fills every aspect of his being from head to toe (Isaiah 1:5-6). His heart and mind is filled with it (Ecclesiastes 9:3, Ephesians 4:17-19, Titus 1:15, 1 Timothy 3:8, 6:5). There remains no good in men (Romans 7:18). Man is basically evil, not good. His heart is as hard as stone (Ezekiel 11:19, Jeremiah 23:29). Man imagines that he is only sick, but the Bible says he is dead (Ephesians 2:1, Colossians 2:13). Man feels he is, at worst, near-sighted, but Scripture says he is blind (2 Corinthians 3:14). Man shrugs off his vices as minor, but the Word says he is a slave (John 8:44, Ephesians 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:26). As I pointed out before, man lacks the moral ability to change his nature (Jeremiah 13:23). He can't stop sinning or even want to stop sinning (2 Peter 2:14). Everything he does has a sinful motive behind it, even when his actions outwardly appear good (Genesis 6:5). Man is unable to obey God (Matthew 7:18, Romans 8:7-8). He never seeks God (Romans 3:11). He is unwilling and unable to come to God for help (John 3:19-20, John 5:40, John 6:44, 65). Man is always set against God. His will is not neutral or self-determining. He always wills in accordance with his nature. Since his nature is evil, his thoughts and motives are always evil. But this moral inability does not annul his responsibility. Quite the contrary it compounds his guilt. Remember, this sinfulness is self-inflicted. God does not cancel Man's debt simply because Man has squandered the loan and is unable to pay God back. Man is guilty and deserves to go to Hell (Romans 6:23). This is the doctrine traditionally called total depravity. It is a question of extent and degree. Tim Challies writes, "We can put one drop of deadly poison in that glass and it renders that entire glass poisonous so that if you were to drink it, you would quickly drop dead. That one drop extended to every part of the glass even though the entire vessel is not filled with poison. This represents humans after the Fall. While they are not wholly corrupt, the corruption they do have extends to every part. And finally consider a third glass which is filled entirely with poison. From top to bottom there is nothing but deadly poison. This represents Satan, who the Bible portrays as being absolutely corrupt so there is no good left whatsoever, but this does not represent humans here on earth. Humans are not as depraved as they could possibly be." In Him, Dco |
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3 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | Beja | 220031 | ||
Dodoy, Doc just gave you some very important stuff. Infact, he just pretty much nailed much of what I was going to write to you. I'm glad he did though because I think he did a better job of it than I would have. If you really do want to learn where you have been taught wrong, it has to begin with the doctrine of man. I suggest you slowly and thoroughly study what Doc has told you in this post, reading every verse quoted. What does scripture really say about who we are? What does it indicate about what we would choose if left to ourselves? This is not the end of what you need to know, but it is the bed rock on which the rest is built. I'm not sure there are many wrong views of salvation that don't have their errors first stemming from cracks in this foundation. On a side note, I still think you need to pursue what you mean by being saved from sin. You keep asserting that we are "saved from our sin." But what does that mean? Why do I need saved from my sin? The answer to that question is going to be important. Because the only reason I need saved from my sin, is because God is going to judge it. Therefore, to be saved from sin, is to be delivered from God's judgment on sin. But, focus not on that, but on what Doc wrote to you. That is where we have to start if you really do want to know where you've been taught wrong. Oh, and well said, Doc. In Christ, Beja |
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4 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | dodoy | 220049 | ||
Hi, Pastor Beja. I have posted something for Doc, in response to what he posted for me. Relative to what he posted which you said is important stuff, yes, indeed, it is important. It, however, belongs to another topic, which we could tackle after the current issue. So sorry if I can not just as yet focus on another topic. On your side note relative to what I meant by being saved from sin, I am sorry, but I felt I have covered that in my previous post for you. Anyway, there is wisdom in what you said that the only reason man "need [to be] saved from my sin, is because God is going to judge it. Therefore, to be saved from sin, is to be delivered from God's judgment on sin." Sadly, I may not have exhausted everything in my search despite the effort I gave, but I can not find anything in the Bible that God is going to judge sin. But if you have found anything on it (which I felt you have otherwise you won't even mention it), thank you very much for informing me. The following verses in the NASB mention "judge the world" (Ps. 9:8; 96:13; 98:9; Jn. 3:17; 12:47; Acts 17:31; Rom. 3:6; 1 Co. 6:2), while these verses mention "judge the earth" (1 Chr. 16:33; Ps. 82:8; 96:13; 98:9). Do you mean that judging sin means judging the earth or judging the world? Sincerely, dodoy |
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5 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | Val | 220054 | ||
Just a side note. Other words for sin are evil, wickedness, inquity and deeds whether good or bad. Judging the world means the people of the world; the lost at the white throne judgment. The saved at the bema seat for rewards. | ||||||