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NASB | Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever (completely, perfectly, for eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede and intervene on their behalf [with God]. |
Subject: Is Salvation lump sum? |
Bible Note: Dear Pastor Beja, Thanks for the post. Here are my observations: 1. You posted: "God's judging the world and judging sin is the same thing. When God say He is going to judge sin, that means He is going to judge the sinners. Judging sin means judging people." (any Bible text for this?) I deduce from what you posted that 'judging the world is judging sin, and judging sin means judging people who are sinners.' I am sorry but it appears the Bible does not say God will not judge the righteous. Ecclesiastes 3:17 (NASB) "...God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man, for a time for every matter and for every deed is there." Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 (NASB) 13 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14 For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil." 2. You posted: " But He did die for the sin of those who would receive Him through faith and repentance." I'm real sad I can not fully agree, because it seems it is not the whole truth because the Bible says "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." 1 John 2:2 (NASB) 3. You posted: "So saved from sin, does indeed mean to be saved from the final judgment when God will throw sinful humanity into the lake of fire" (any Bible text for this?) I could not in conscience agree, because the Bible says: 1 Timothy 1:15 (NASB) "It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." Romans 3:23 (NASB) "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Since all have sinned, all are sinners. Christ came to save sinners, ergo, Christ came to save all, because all are sinners. And so, all had been saved from sin. But the Bible says there are those who will be thrown into the lake of fire. The Bible therefore shows us that to be saved from sin does not mean saved likewise from being thrown into the lake of fire. 4. You posted: "The point being worked towards is that if any part of this is left to us then we will perish. All portions are entirely from God. Yet your view of salvation leaves all mankind, having had some assistance from God to get us started, no we are left to keep our own names from getting blotted out." To say that in my view of salvation we are left to keep our names from getting blotted out, is not fair. Perhaps, that is how you understood my view. When I said that God works IN man, is that God leaving man? 5. You quoted Romans 8:28-30, and concluded: "we see clearly that all those he Justified, He also glorified. Which refers to our final ressurection and partaking of Christ's full likeness." You imply that 'to be glorified' in this verse refers to our final resurrection and partaking of Christ's full likeness? Please, I mean no offense, but we don't have to be grammarians to see that the tense of the verb in the phrase "He also glorified" is in the same tense of the phrase "He also justified". I believe we have been justified, therefore, we must have been glorified as well. But you are saying the glorification mentioned in the verse is yet future. So then, it appears it is not me who is "arguing that there are those who are justified, but they are not glorified." 6. You mentioned in your post "I'm trying to get you to see that we must look at the whole of it at once if you are to see your error." Sincerely, I have to be grateful for your concern for me to see my error. Thank you. But, as you can see, I have defended my position with Biblical verses. If you were in my place, will you admit you are in error? 7. Finally, on what you call the doctrine of Man, you want me to begin with you and Doc, I appreciate the gesture and eagerness. Sadly, I can not take on this topic for the moment yet. I understand you saying that if I can have a correct understanding of this new topic, then I will see where I am wrong. Let me suggest an alternative. Just support your objections to my view with Bible texts. To all others in this forum, you have to pardon me for what I am in your perception. But on this I stand, that unless supported by what the Bible says, no amount of scholarly explanations replete with theological jargon can change my view on an issue. Sincerely, dodoy |