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NASB | Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever (completely, perfectly, for eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede and intervene on their behalf [with God]. |
Subject: Is Salvation lump sum? |
Bible Note: Dodoy, Yes, that is absolutely what I mean. God's judging the world and judging sin is the same thing. When God say He is going to judge sin, that means He is going to judge the sinners. Judging sin means judging people. You can't seperate the two. The cross itself should be testimony to this. In order for God to judge the sin of a believer, He had to judge a person! And that judgment fell on our sinless Lord rather than ourselves. Had God been able to judge sin abstractly in some other way than judging people then our Lord died for no reason. But He did die for the sin of those who would receive Him through faith and repentance. So saved from sin, does indeed mean to be saved from the final judgment when God will throw sinful humanity into the lake of fire. Sin isn't what is going to destroy us in the end, a Holy God is going to destroy sinners in the end. This is what it means to be saved, even to be saved from sin. If there was not a judge going to judge me then me and sin would still be getting along wonderfully with no need of anybody to save either us. Also, with regard to the doctrine of man. Doc and I are not introducing a second topic without reason. Discovering where you are wrong has everything to do with what Doc posted. Once you understand what scripture teaches about who we are, then you are going to see how that condition is undone. The point being worked towards is that if any part of this is left to us then we will perish. All portions are entirely from God. Yet your view of salvation leaves all mankind, having had some assistance from God to get us started, no we are left to keep our own names from getting blotted out. To which we are trying to show you, the moment God leaves any part to you and I, we would all fall without exception. Should you then say that God chooses some to effectually work in them to succeed (phi 2:12,13), then you have created an interesting scenario. You say that all are saved from sin, but then God chooses to save some from God, and others He chooses not to save from God. Now, that last part certainly is scriptual. But then once again, you've rendered the idea of "being saved from sin" absolutely meaningless. The fact that Christ died for their sin in your view, has ultimately done not one thing for them, seeing as God has then left them to perish from further sin without the necessary grace to "overcome." What we say, is that it all is one continuous saving grace from beggining to end. Those whom He has saved from sin...and those whom He predestined, He also called, and those whom He called, He also justified, and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30) Now the meaning of justification is that we are declared inoccent from sin and stand in Christ's perfect righteousness before God. In other words, this is us being forgiven/saved from sin. Yet you are arguing that there are those who are justified, but they are not glorified. Even though we see clearly that all those he Justified, He also glorified. Which refers to our final ressurection and partaking of Christ's full likeness. I've given more in this post than I can probably reasonably expect somebody to process in one lump, but I'm trying to get you to see that we must look at the whole of it at once if you are to see your error. And so, we were beggining with the doctrine of Man. In Christ, Beja |