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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | dodoy | 219970 | ||
Dear Doc, If I understood you correctly, in effect, the "us" and the "we" refer only to the sanctified and faithful followers of Jesus Christ of all ages? If so, then the apostle Paul was, in a way, telling the Church at Ephesus that only the sanctified and faithful followers of Christ were chosen by God and predestined for adoption as sons through Christ, with all others excluded? If this was really what the apostle Paul meant, why did he tell Timothy that God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."? 1 Timothy 2:4, NASB. |
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2 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | DocTrinsograce | 219986 | ||
Hi, dodoy... Learn to interpret in context. Let me quote the answer by Rev. John Samson. (I'm sick, besides, he says it better than I might). In Him, Doc I have often times heard people quote 1 Tim 2:4 to dismiss, out of hand, the biblical teaching on Sovereign grace or Divine election. In quoting the verse they have told me that God has no interest in electing certain people to salvation but that His desire is for every person to be saved. Yet, we must remember that the word "all" always has a context. It can sometimes mean all people everywhere - many times it does - but it sometimes means "all" in the sense of "all kinds" or "all classes, types" of people or at other times it refers to all within a certain type or class.. For instance, we do the same thing in our English language when a school teacher in a classroom may ask the question, "are we ALL here?" or "is EVERYONE here?" She is not asking if everyone on planet earth is in the classroom, but because of the context in which the question is framed (the school teacher's classroom) we understand she is referring to all within a certain class or type - in this case, all the students signed up for the class. I believe 1 Tim 2:4 is speaking of all in this sense of "all types." What is my biblical basis for saying this? The context. Lets read the passage: [1 Tim 2:1-4] Who are the "all people" of verse 1? I believe the "all people" of verse 1 are the same "all people" of verse 4, as the subject matter does not change in any way at all in the intervening verses. When Paul wrote "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people.." was he asking Tim to get the equivalent of the local phone book and starting with the alphas and going all the way through to the omegas (the Greek alphabet) make supplication, pray, intercede and make thanksgiving for each individual in the city... or more than that, the whole world? I don't think so. Why do I say this? Because Paul qualifies verse 1 with verse 2 when he speaks of "kings" (kings are types of people) and "those in high positions" (again "those in high positions" are types of people). Why should we pray for them? One of the reasons we should pray for them is because these people (kings and those in high positions of authority) make decisions which affect society at large. If these people have their eyes opened, they will not be persecutors of Christians but will enact laws that will actually restrain sin so "that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way." So one of the reasons to pray for them is because good government can mean a measure of peace in a society, and it is a lot easier to spread the Gospel when there is no civil unrest. The passage also points us to another reason to pray, namely that God desires all (all who?) .. all types of people including these influential people with authority in society to be saved. His message to Tim was this: Do not just pray for the peasants, the farmers and the uneducated (the people who seem to be coming to Christ in great numbers right now), but remember to pray for kings and the very rulers in society who are at this moment persecuting Christians. Make prayer of this kind a priority - do it "first of all" - pray for these people Tim - make sure the Church is praying for these people - because God desires all kinds of people - even kings (or Emperors like Caesar) and the elite in society - people of every kind, to be saved. We must remember that the earliest Christians were almost all from the lower class of society, so this would be BIG news to them. [Read1 Cor 1:26-29] Turning to another Scripture in Rev chapter 5, we are given prophetic insight into the future, revealing to us what Jesus the Lamb actually achieved in His atoning work on the cross. He did not save everybody or make a mere potential atonement available for everyone, but he made an effectual atonement - a powerful one that achieved its desired end or goal of saving certain specific people. What exactly did He achieve? [Read Rev 5:9] Note the words, for they are very specific. It does not say that Jesus ransomed the people OF but people FROM every tribe and language and nation. The Greek word for "from" is ek meaning "out of" - He redeemed people out of every tribe, language, people group and nation.. NOT all without exception, but all without distinction. I mention this verse in Rev 5 because this is in perfect harmony with 1 Tim 2:4 which teaches very clearly that God desires all (all kinds of people) to be saved. God will have every tribe, tongue, people group and nation represented around the throne as the heavenly hosts sing of the Lamb who was slain to redeem them. |
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3 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | dodoy | 219995 | ||
Hi, Doc. So sorry, you're in bed. Hope you get well soon. Thanks anyway for the answer from Rev. John Samson. He can really move mountains, by context. The Bible says that God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4 NASB) Rev. Samson said: "God desires all kinds of people - even kings (or Emperors like Caesar) and the elite in society - people of every kind, to be saved." Please note: "people of every kind", NOT people from every kind. 1 Tim 4:10 (NASB) - "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." This verse says God is the Saviour of all men, which we could contextually render as "God is the Saviour of all [kinds of] men", as Rev. Samson instructs. One of these kinds as shown in verse 10 is "those that believe." The other kind is obvious: "those that don't believe." Now, contextually analyzing the verse, since God is the Saviour of all kinds of men, therefore, He is the Saviour of "those who believe" and also the "Saviour" of "those who don't believe." Question: If God did not save "those who don't believe", how can God be their Saviour? |
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4 | Is Salvation lump sum? | Heb 7:25 | DocTrinsograce | 219998 | ||
Dear dody, Remember, every word is in the context of a sentence, every sentence in the context of a passage, every passage in the context of a book. The greatest interpreter of Scripture is Scripture. The historic use of passages like John 12:32, Philippians 2:10-11, and 1 Timothy 2:4 to support universalism is untenable at best and specious at worst. Particularly so in the light of such passages as Matthew 13:30; 49; 25:32; 46; Luke 3:17; 16:26; John 8:42-44; 15:6; Acts 16:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; etc. etc. The Scripture clearly delineates a distinction between believer/unbeliever, wheat/tares, sheep/goats, saved/lost, etc. and their disparate ultimate destinations. Pastor Samson is rendering a sound and orthodox interpretation. May I ask, with what group or denomination with which you study? Your approach sounds familiar. In Him, Doc |
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