Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | DocTrinsograce | 193858 | ||
Dear Cheri, I disagree. I firmly believe that God will withhold no good thing from His children (Psalm 84:11). Humans have a whole skewed value system (Isaiah 5:20; Isaiah 55:8-9), failing to see the ultimate goal and glory toward which God is unfailingly guiding all things. If God deems that I am in need of cancer to ultimately conform me to the image of His son, He would never be so cruel as to keep that blessing from me (Matthew 7:11)! In Him, Doc "How do the afflictions of the godly, differ from the afflictions of the wicked? (1) The afflictions of the godly are but corrections; but those on the wicked are punishments. The one come from a Father; the other from a Judge. (2) The afflictions of the godly are fruits of covenant mercy. Afflictions on the wicked are effects of God’s wrath. Afflictions on the wicked are the pledge of hell; they are like the shackling of a malefactor, which presages his execution. (3) The afflictions of the godly make them better; but afflictions on the wicked make them worse. The godly pray more; 'Out of the depths I cry to you, O Lord.' Psalm 130:1. The wicked blaspheme more. 'Men were scorched with great heat–and blasphemed the name of God.' Revelation 16:9. Affliction on the godly is like bruising spices–which makes them give off a most sweet and fragrant aroma. Affliction on the wicked is like pounding weeds with a pestle–which makes them give off a foul stench. It is a sign the affliction is sanctified, when the heart is brought to a sweet submissive frame." --Thomas Watson "I am mended by my sickness, enriched by my poverty, and strengthened by my weakness... Thus was it with Manasseh, when he was in affliction, 'He besought the Lord his God' (2 Chronicles 33:12-13): even that king's iron was more precious to him than his gold, his jail a more happy lodging than his palace, Babylon a better school than Jerusalem. What fools are we, then, to frown upon our afflictions! These, how crabbed soever, are our best friends. They are not indeed for our pleasure, they are for our profit." --Abraham Wright "There is no attribute of God more comforting to his children than the doctrine of Divine Sovereignty. Under the most adverse circumstances, in the most severe troubles, they believe that Sovereignty hath ordained their afflictions, that Sovereignty overrules them, and that Sovereignty will sanctify them all. There is nothing for which the children of God ought more earnestly to contend than the dominion of their Master over all creation -- the kingship of God over all the works of his own hands—the throne of God, and his right to sit upon that throne. On the other hand, there is no doctrine more hated by worldlings, no truth of which they have made such a foot-ball, as the great, stupendous, but yet most certain doctrine of the Sovereignty of the infinite Jehovah. Men will allow God to be everywhere except on His throne." --Charles H. Spurgeon "We are called to yield to God's wise and fatherly disposal in every condition, and many times this means we are to be silent under His rod of discipline, knowing that we are in His school and that the passing sufferings we endure here will appear as nothing when we finally behold our blessed hope. God would have us depend on Him though we do not now understand our pain nor how he will bring about deliverance or purpose in it. If we do depend on Him He will often bring the improbable to pass. 'Keep quiet under afflictions oh my soul. God has acted and so I am satisfied in my judgment in what He has done. I freely take pleasure in your disposal God. You may remove my burden in due time or if you choose to keep the burden there make me pleased that your hand is in it.' In whatever condition God puts us in we should not only be content but see His good hand in it. If we choose to see evil in our condition(s), then we actually complain against God's providence for us. But remember He has promised to deliver us. In the meantime we must learn and witness to the world around us in whatever condition He has placed us in. Like David, we must say, 'it is good that I was afflicted.'" --John Hendryx |
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2 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | skccab | 193859 | ||
But, Doc, if you die from that (which in itself isn't a bad thing ;-) ), but then you couldn't be conformed here on earth for others to see and give glory to God - which is where His glory needs to be seen. So what purpose would it serve? There is affliction and then there is that which kills. I just can't see the Father doing that which kills to His children. I do understand the Judge and Father differentitation (the Father actually holds a much higher standard than the Judge). Once again, I just can't see that which kills coming from the Father to teach a lesson. I liked Watson and Hendryx especially. I will rethink my position. I can agree in many areas but there are some that just ring too harsh according to Matt. 9:7-11 and James 1:17. still learning Cheri |
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3 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | DocTrinsograce | 193918 | ||
Dear Cheri, You wrote, "...you couldn't be conformed here on earth for others to see and give glory to God - which is where His glory needs to be seen." (sic) The visibility of God's glory is not contingent on how he deals with me. Romans 1 tells us conclusively that how man sees the work of God manifests a moral problem, they choose not to see. They intentionally choose to be blind (John 3:19-21; 9:39-41). You wrote, "...I just can't see that which kills coming from the Father..." (sic) You cited James where he wrote, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change." (James 1:17 ESV) I guess I'm not properly communicating. Let me say it this way by asking a question. Don't you see that anything at all that comes from God's hand -- regardless of it being commissive or permissive -- is, by definition, good, right, wise, appropriate, and necessary? The problem is that we don't even stop to realize our own limitations. We think that WE can judge what is good, right, wise, appropriate, and necessary! That is precisely the presumptuous sin we saw in the book of Job! I know that this teaching of God never being responsible for death, disease, or deprivation is a common one nowadays. But it simply doesn't square with the Word. He wouldn't be God if He lacked the power and authority to prevent these things. He wouldn't be wise and omniscient if He could make an error in judgment or was taken by surprise. He wouldn't be good and loving if He didn't exercise control. Frankly, it is a great comfort for me to know that my life is entirely in His hands. Hope isn't just wishful thinking, it is confident expectation. So much more could be said. It is hard for someone like me to be brief! In Him, Doc PS Suffering is not always a matter of merit (Luke 13:2-5; John 9:2-3). Often it is a means by which we might be more fruitful (Luke 13:6-9), or in which God can receive greater glory in our lives (John 9:2-3), or in which we might grow in holiness (Hebrews 12:4-7). Christ says, "Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline." (Revelation 3:19a ESV) (See also Deuteronomy 8:5; 2 Samuel 7:14; Psalm 94:10) |
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4 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | skccab | 193923 | ||
Doc, I'm not arguing a bit about discipline, chastisement and the such. (As I stated before, I see God as Father holding a much higher standard for His own than God as Judge over those that do not know Him.) Once again, as long as we are in this world we are subject to the world's woes, some of those woes being sickness, disease, murder, rape. Where my problem is arising is in the thought that my Father would put something on me (or anyone else) to "teach a lesson,' that could ultimately (and probably would) kill me. What good would the "lesson" then be if I were dead? It's a bit of a stretch but I can grudgingly agree that He might "bless" me (as you would say :-) ) with a bad cold, or flu, so that I might slow down for a few days and maybe pay attention to what He's trying to tell me, but I just cannot see Him slapping something on one of His children that is gonna kill them. (Given, of course, that that's not His ultimate motive in the first place!) I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. But one thing I promise, when I get to heaven and Abba tells me you were right all along, I will find you and apologize :-). Shalom Cheri |
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5 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | DocTrinsograce | 193936 | ||
Dear Cheri, Okay... we'll disagree... but wouldn't it be better to be worthy workmen (2 Timothy 2:15)? Besides, who wants to wait when He's already spoken? :-) Nevertheless, the implications of a God either unwilling or unable to exercise life and death is frightening... no, horrifying. (See post #182821) Open theism and other new perspectives speak this way, but it is utterly alien to orthodoxy. I just cannot see Him sadly and impotently wringing His hands when His sovereignty is challenged by some force that clearly is more deserving of the title of sovereign. In Him, Doc "Many are very busy trying to construct a god for themselves, such as they think God ought to be. And it generally turns out that they fashion a god like themselves, for that saying of the psalmist concerning idols and 'idol makers' is still true, 'And those who make them are just like them, as are all who trust in them.' Psalm 135:18 These modern manufacturers of gods make them blind because they are themselves blind, and deaf because they are deaf, and dead because they are spiritually dead. Some quarrel with God as a Sovereign, and no doctrine makes them grind their teeth like the glorious truth of divine sovereignty. They profess to want a god, but... he must not be on a throne; he must not be King; he must not be absolute and universal Monarch. He must do as his creatures tell him, not as he himself wills. Their effeminate deity is not worthy to be known by the name of God!" --Charles H. Spurgeon |
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6 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | skccab | 193949 | ||
Doc, Quote / the implications of a God either unwilling or unable to exercise life and death is frightening... no, horrifying. I never said such a thing!! And if you think that I did then you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear. What I said is that I don't believe that God would put something deadly on a person to teach a lesson or get their attention. But I will state that the other poster that made the statements about doctors and medicine would have to be closer to being correct if we see every sickness and disease that comes upon us as being from God to teach us a lesson. What do we say about all the people in the Gospels whom Yeahua "unblessed" by healing them? (It's not that He cannot, I just don't think that He does.) Both of my mothers died of cancer (I'm adopted and know my natural family). The one - I don't know if she was a believer, but the one that raised me was a godly, born-again lady. The surgery that gave her another 5years of life according to you, would have been going against the will of God? The 5 years of remission then was of the adversary and not of God because He gave her the cancer? I don't see where we can have it both ways. Either God gave us brilliant men and women of medicine to fight the curse that came into the world at Adam's fall - or He puts it all on us and the knowledge we've gained in medicine is of the devil and we should just "sit back and get our lesson and hope we get better?" That just doesn't fit into the "abundant life" and "joy more fully" that is a promise to us. I'm very sorry to hear about your father, Doc, I will be praying for you and for him. Let's leave this conversation for now. I love you dearly, and am blessed to have such a wise brother looking out for me sometimes, but here I think we've hit a brick wall, or my feet are stuck in drying cement. much love and prayers for you and yours Cheri |
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7 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjohn | 193957 | ||
Hi Cheri, I'd just like to offer this in hopes that it will help.... ah, with the concrete. ;-) Why were Ananias and Sapphira struck dead, if it were not to teach them/us a lesson? Other reasons could be sighted as well but, none the less a lesson is learned from something deadly that seams came from God. Nothing deadlier then dead, by the way. The Bible tells us many times that, God indeed does put something deadly on people, in order too teach them or us a lesson. In the case of Samson for instance, to add one more to a list that we could explore if need be, but, Samson prayed to God for strength to pull down the temple, God of corse knew that this would kill samson, but answered his prayer in the affirmative. Once again something deadly from God, and, a lesson for him (Samson)/us. I hope this helps you over the wall. :-) God bless John |
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8 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | skccab | 193958 | ||
Greetings John, Note taken, and thank you. I'm not in disagreement that it NEVER happens. I just don't buy that EVERY time - it's due to God trying to teach a lesson. I think that there has been a case of semantics getting in the way. I'm fully aware and in agreement that our God is Sovereign at all times. There's no argument there at all. I think possibly I was misunderstanding Doc as saying "ALL" and he (and you) misunderstood me as saying "NEVER." I do not believe that He NEVER will use deadly means to teach a lesson - I just don't believe that ALL sickness, disease, etc. come from Him to "teach a lesson." I do believe that these things do happen with His knowledge and (I dislike this term, but) approval, but often they happen just because we are in this cursed world. So, in short, I don't believe that the Father is the author of EVERY bad and deadly thing that happens to us, but neither do I believe that He is NEVER the author of them either. Please note the operative word "author." (After all, if He had absolutely nothing to do with any of the bad [or good] things then that would have to mean He was not aware or didn't care - and we know He is and does.) I'm having a great deal of difficulty with the right words, but I hope I have cleared up any misunderstandings. If not, I can try again. :-) Shalom Cheri |
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9 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | miller521 | 193977 | ||
God is soverign, does being soverign mean you will kill if you feel like it? Just because our God is soverign doesn't mean he doesn't abide by his own word. If God at times kills and destorys, then we can easily say that at times he's a thief. Read John 10:10..... if you ever say God does those things, then you must also say at times he's a Thief, which would put him in violation of his own commandments wouldn't it? |
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10 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | BradK | 193982 | ||
Hello miller, If I mayn be so blunt as to suggest 2 things?: 1. Show a little more thought in your replies- less emotion, 2. Be a bit more Biblically sound in your points This will go a long way toward a better- more edifying dialog that will serve the Forum:-) Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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11 | God allowing things in our lives | 2 Tim 3:16 | miller521 | 193983 | ||
Thanks for the response BrakK. I can't possibly show less emotion when I talk about God's Word, I'm very passionate about it. I And two I am biblically sound. I have quoted John 10:10 which tells us what a thief does. And some claim God does the work of a thief, I want to hear how they justify that. |
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