Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | kalos | 169226 | ||
"lower parts of the earth" ____________________ "The question here is to determine what Paul meant by the lower parts of the earth." ____________________ In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things. Ephes. 4:9-10 (ESV) 'More problematic still is Ephesians 4:9,10 where Paul writes: 'The question here is to determine what Paul meant by the lower parts of the earth. 'Paul explains that Christ "ascended far above all the heavens" and contrasts that to His having "descended into the lower parts of the earth." Many feel this may simply be a reference to His incarnation (i.e., His descent to earth) and that it is simply a dramatic comparison of the lowliness of earth in comparison to His high heavenly home (Cf. Isaiah 44:23 for another reference to the "lower parts of the earth" indicating, poetically, the earth itself). Others hold that the reference is to Christ's humiliation in enduring death. (There is a third view -- that Christ did descend to hell in order to make a proclamation -- but we will examine that as we look at the next passage in question.)' 'When turning to the Scriptures, however, a certain ambiguity again arises. The idea that Christ "descended into hell" finds its basis on a small group of passages, all of which appear to open up a variety of views or interpretations. 'Perhaps the clearest reference is found in Acts 2:24-32 (Cf. Psalm 16:10-11 and Acts 13:34-37). Peter, preaching, quotes a prophetic Psalm and goes on to explain that Christ was not "abandoned to Hades" (2:31). As noted scholar A.T. Robertson points out, Hades is the unseen world, Hebrew Sheol . . . It does not mean the place of punishment, though both heaven and the place of torment are in Hades (Luke 16:23). Death and Hades are strictly parallel terms: he who is dead is in Hades (Page). [xxxix] Therefore, the most that can be legitimately concluded from this reference is that not only did our Lord's identification with mankind lead to His death on the cross, but He subsequently experienced that which any man would (i.e., the separation of soul and body). 'In Romans 10:6,7, Paul quotes a passage from Deuteronomy that some take as referring to a "descent into hell" by Christ. However, it also appears as though this reference is simply alluding to Christ's death. 'Commenting on the seventh verse -- 'Who will descend into the abyss?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead), R.C.H. Lenski comments: '"Abyss" is the extreme opposite of "heaven." Paul himself indicates in what sense he uses this term, namely as referring to Christ's death and resurrection . . . The reference is to Christ's resurrection, to His going down into the abyss of death and the grave and His being brought up from the dead in his glorious resurrection.[xl] 'Apparently, then, these two references most-likely refer to Christ's death, and not a three-day visit in hell as the "Faith" teachers believe. (...) 'Whatever the interpretation held, it is clear that this passage is hardly a substantial basis for teaching that Jesus Christ descended to hell as a mortal man to be tortured by the devil.' _______________ The above is an excerpt from a longer article. To read more go to: (http://www.equip.org/free/DP060.htm) |
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2 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | mark d seyler | 169229 | ||
Hi Kalos, Just to clarify my view, I am not, in any way, shape, or form advocating the heretical view that Jesus went to hell to be punished by the devil, to "take keys from the devil", or any other such purpose. The work Jesus did was completed on the cross. Justice was satisfied, the price paid, the work completed. I believe that Jesus descended to hell ("hades" or "sheol") to announce to those in Abraham's bosom, the faithful, that He had bought their release, and to proclaim His victory over sin and death. Just to be clear... Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | drbloor | 169247 | ||
Mark, I'd be interested to hear your scriptural basis for a belief in 'Abrahams bosom' - a place only mentioned once in a parable which is (I was going to say parabolic..!) is at best not entirely literal. In fact it is in a parable which Jesus himself uses to mock the pharisees, their high priest and their belief system... The description you missed out when describing Gehenna was that it was not only an OT place of idolatry, but also a place where the bodies of executed criminals were burned. Which explains a lot about why people today think it was "Hell". As you say, Gehenna was translated badly and should never have been translated out of the original Greek into english as "Hell" or "Lake of Fire" or anything else. It's a placename "Gai ben Hinnom" - the valley of the son of Hinnom. |
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4 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | mark d seyler | 169248 | ||
Dear drbloor, The story of the rich man and Lazarus isn't a parable. None of the qualifying factors of a parable apply to it. Jesus spoke it as factual. If we are to say that it was a parable, we would not only be going beyond what the text allows, but there would be nothing to stop us from saying that anything in the Bible was allegorical. We could pick and choose as we please. If you believe it was a parable, please show us where the text conclusively demonstrates that. Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | DocTrinsograce | 169253 | ||
Hi, Brother Mark! I see your point here. In my notes, I have the following characteristics of parables: 1. Parables teach a truth using the technique of similarity or illustration. 2. Parables are usually very short, thus they are intended to be easily remembered. 3. Parables can be described as simultaneously very simple and very complex. 4. Parables use earthly things as teaching instruments. 5. Parables have only one primary point. 6. Parables typically have three parts: (1) the setting (cultural context); (2) a story; and (3) a spiritual application. 7. Parables are intended to teach faithful disciples. 8. Parables are intended to hide the truth from the disobedient. The teaching of Lazarus and Dives fails on several points. However, I'd be rather hard pressed to confidently assert that this teaching ought to be taken as representing a literal incident. (I'm given to understand the Romanists have a site they venerate as the actual home of Dives.) The notion of any kind of actual interaction between the occupants of Hades and those of Heaven is, after all, extremely problematic. I wonder why so many of the commentators and teachers of the past considered this story to be a parable? In Him, Doc |
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6 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | mark d seyler | 169283 | ||
Dear Doc, Not for the first, time, some may call me naive, but I just take it as it's written. :-) I appreciate that you include in your list "Parables have only one Primary point." I hear many say that parables have only one point period, which I find to be too limited for a real understanding of the depth of Jesus' teaching. I'm not familiar with "Dives", except as what I do in the ocean. ;-) But since we're talking about pre-crucifixion times, I understand that all were in the same place, so we aren't talking about conversing between heaven and "hades", but between the good side of hades and the bad side. There was a gulf that couldn't be crossed, but apparently voices could carry. But the bottom line for me is, without textual cause to understand this as other than how Jesus presented it, well, how do I know that in Jesus' Fathers house are many dwellings? Or all the other things He said. I really don't know why so many consider it a parable. Why didn't the Sadducees believe in the resurrection? Love in Christ, Mark |
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7 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | DocTrinsograce | 169286 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, Dives is the traditional name of the rich man. It is from the Latin, meaning, literally, "rich man." :-) I'm not certain that the abodes of the dead were reconfigured at the time of the crucifiction. It sounds a bit too dispensational to me. On the other hand, it would permit explanation of some passages that might otherwise leave us wrestling with apparent contradictions. Disbelief in the resurrection and belief that Lazarus and Dives is a parable sure don't seem on the same level! The former is a repudiation of God's explicit Word, the latter is a relatively minor point of interpretation. The former has eternal implications, the latter is simply a matter of hermeneutic discussion with no impact on doctrine. In answer of my own question, as to why some see Lazarus and Dives as a parable and others do not: I rather suspect it has to do with the definition of a parable. As it frequently does, most debates boil down to a definition of terms. Since Scripture does not give us a definition, we are left to pull characteristics of parables in those cases where we are explicitly told that that is what they are. Thank you for your time, dear brother. In Him, Doc |
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8 | Jesus decended into hell? | Eph 4:9 | mark d seyler | 169290 | ||
Dear Doc, I think what I mean is that the Side of Comfort was emptied out as Jesus "took captivity captive", following His resurrection. And yes, I agree with you that my comparison of the resurrection and this story is perhaps using both the Twin Towers and a garden shed in the same way. But what I was thinking, if I can perhaps be more succinct, is that I think some people tend to reject some aspects of the supernatural, and such clear and "natural" seeming descriptions of supernatural realities. But perhaps your answer covers a lot of people, that they simply define a parable differently. I like you list, by the way. And thank you! and God bless you! Love in Christ, Mark |
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