Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Dr. B. What does aggelos mean? | Eph 4:9 | mark d seyler | 171708 | ||
Just to throw this into the mix :-) In reference to this, there are a few ways these verses can be viewed. Take 2 Peter 2:4 "He delivered them to chains of darkness". This does not say that the angels died. They were delivered, but we don't know how. In Luke 20:36, what death are we talking about? Men die, but their spirit lives on. They only physically die. Angels are spirits to begin with, and angels don't "die" in the sense that natural man dies. We physically die, and the angels do not. After the resurrection, redeemed man won't physically die, we will be like the angels. But that's not the only death. Where is it that the unredeemed are cast? Matt 25:41 - Into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Rev. 20 will tell us that for man, this will be the second death. I would suggest that for angels, it will be the first and final death. Does this help shed some light? Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Dr. B. What does aggelos mean? | Eph 4:9 | drbloor | 171735 | ||
Dear Mark, In 2 Peter 2:4 I would put it to you that in context, which seems to clearly speak of the death of sinful men at the time of the Flood, the chains (or cords) of darkness are the same chains or cords that David spoke of and they simply refer to death: Psalm 18:6 The cords of Sheol tightened; the snares of death lay in wait for me. Psalm 116:3 I was caught by the cords of death; the snares of Sheol had seized me; As for the angels, you said: "I would suggest that for angels, it will be the first and final death." First or second death, if they can't die, they can't die either death. What would be the point of us being made like the angels if all we will be rewarded with is another existence where we can sin and die again? If angels can sin and be killed, then we will be able to do likewise in the next life. That is not salvation, that's a charade. The only alternative is that angels cannot die (1st or 2nd!), and they cannot die because they cannot sin, and in the Kingdom to come we will be unable to die because we will be unable to sin, like the angels. That seems to me to be true salvation. I honestly struggle to comprehend a life beyond this one which is without any apparent fixed salvation. Yrs, Dr. B. |
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3 | Dr. B. What does aggelos mean? | Eph 4:9 | mark d seyler | 171738 | ||
Dear Dr. B, I do not see where the context of 2 Peter 2:4 requires that "aggelos" mean men. Peter lists out several groups, and "sinning angels" is one of those groups. There is no requirment that these groups be equal or the same. I would need you to show be a detailed exegesis of this passage detailing how this context requires these "angels" to be men. Our promises are sure and sound, that sin will be forever removed from us. The Bible does not spell out in so many words His dispensation to the angels. That does not concern us. I find the parallel passage in Jude interesting: Jude 1:6 "And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;" What I find most interesting about this passage within the context of this discussion is the reference to the "dwelling place" that these "angels" left. It is in the Greek "oiketerion", used only one other time in the Bible, in 2 Cor 5:2 of our heavenly bodies. These angels left their heavenly bodies. If they were mere men, where did they get their "oiketerion", that they could leave them? 2 Cor 5:2 "For also in this we groan, greatly desiring to be clothed with our "dwelling place" out of Heaven," Speaking of parallel passages, the parallel passage to your proof-text in Luke, where Matthew describes the same conversation Jesus had concerning the resurrection, and this comparison to angels, would seem to indicate that Jesus was comparing people to the "angels of God", or those that had not sinned. I wouldn't use that fact as a foundation for doctrine, but it can be pointing us in a direction. As I follow this thread, I find myself wondering what you think about this, and so I ask you: Who is Satan? Who are "the devil and his angels"? Who was it that came before God in Job? Who does Michael "and his angels" make war with in heaven: Rev 12:7 And war occurred in Heaven, Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels made war, Rev 12:8 but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Are we to read this and think that these are mere men? Love in Christ, Mark |
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