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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Reformer Joe | 22489 | ||
Tim: Sorry, but this is completely illogical thinking in your attempt to hold to baptismal regeneration at all costs. First you arrgued that NO ONE ever received the Holy Spirit before baptism; then you argued that Cornelius didn't receive the Holy Spirit, but rather just manifested some gifts of the Spirit; and now you are saying that he did indeed receive the Spirit before baptism as Acts 10 said, but that he was a "special case." Are you going to stick to this interpretation? In any case, I think Acts 8 is an interesting passage to look at. If the Holy Spirit comes at baptism as you say, why DID the apostles have to come later and lay hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit. You keep changing your definition of what exactly the Holy Spirit does at baptism. Does one RECEIVE the Holy Spirit at baptism or not? First you said "yes," then you bring up passages that clearly indicate that at least in this case, the Holy Spirit was NOT received at baptism, and yet they were still saved and "sealed" because of their baptism. I think you need to go back and get your definitions stright, Tim. It is very hard to argue against you when you change your own position with almost every post and re-define terms such as "receiving the Holy Spirit" when it suits your pre-conceived notions. So maybe you had better clearly distinguish between these three so the rest of us know what you are talking about: ...receiving the Holy Spirit ...the gift of the Holy Spirit ...the seal of the Holy Spirit Please nail those down once and for all so we don't have this chameleon debate. How are these things different, and when do each of these become a part of the life of a person? --Joe! |
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2 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Tim Sheasby | 22493 | ||
Ok, Joe. Let's look again. There are definately 2 different things here and the terminology has indeed become muddled. The one aspect is one that imparts miraculous ability of one kind or another -- speaking in tongues, healing etc. The other is the 'indwelling' or internal gift of the Spirit. The first happened to the apostles and Cornelius prior to baptism and to the Samaritans some time after baptism. The purpose for this aspect was to provide proof and support to the young church as they had no New Testament in book form as we have it today. The other aspect is sometimes called the gift of the Spirit or the Seal of the Spirit and relates to an "internal" manifestation if you will and this is received at the point and instant of baptism. Manifestations of the first order, I believe, have passed away (1 Corinthians 13:8-10) since we have received the complete revelation of Gods word in the Bible as we hold it today. Tim |
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