Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | Aixen7z4 | 100718 | ||
Dear kalos, you say "apparently some have an irresistible urge to rehash old arguments". I wonder: Does anyone have an irresistable urge to reconcile the points of view? One would hope that these long threads woulld somehow end in some kind of summary and conclusion. Then when an old argument is beginning to be rehashed, instead of asking people to go back and read ten long threads, someone can cut and paste the last conclusion. If we did that, then at least we would take up the discussion where we left off, instead of starting over at the beginning. It would be like a relay race and we'd probably make more progress. |
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2 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | John Reformed | 100739 | ||
Hopefully Noble, one's doctrines grow deeper and closer to the full truth as we study and pray. I don't believe that we should ever take a close-minded attitude when discussing any topic; especially God's Word. Take the Incarnation for example. Can any of us say that our eagle eye has percieved it clearly or our plumb line sounded it's depths? "It has been said by some one that "the proper study of mankind is man." I will not oppose the idea, but I believe it is equally true that the proper study of God's elect is God; the proper study of a Christian is the Godhead. The highest science, the loftiest speculation, the mightiest philosophy, which can ever engage the attention of a child of God, is the name, the nature, the person, the work, the doings, and the existence of the great God whom he calls his Father. There is something exceedingly improving to the mind in a contemplation of the Divinity. It is a subject so vast, that all our thoughts are lost in its immensity; so deep, that our pride is drowned in its infinity. Other subjects we can compass and grapple with; in them we feel a kind of self-content, and go our way with the thought, "Behold I am wise." But when we come to this master-science, finding that our plumb-line cannot sound its depth, and that our eagle eye cannot see its height, we turn away with the thought, that vain man would be wise, but he is like a wild ass's colt; and with the solemn exclamation, "I am but of yesterday, and know nothing." No subject of contemplation will tend more to humble the mind, than thoughts of God. We shall be obliged to feel— "Great God, how infinite art thou, What worthless worms are we!" But while the subject humbles the mind it also expands it. He who often thinks of God, will have a larger mind than the man who simply plods around this narrow globe. He may be a naturalist, boasting of his ability to dissect a beetle, anatomize a fly, or arrange insects and animals in classes with well nigh unutterable names; he may be a geologist, able to discourse of the megatherium and the plesiosaurus, and all kinds of extinct animals; he may imagine that his science, whatever it is, ennobles and enlarges his mind. I dare say it does, but after all, the most excellent study for expanding the soul, is the science of Christ, and him crucified, and the knowledge of the Godhead in the glorious Trinity. Nothing will so enlarge the intellect, nothing so magnify the whole soul of man, as a devout, earnest, continued investigation of the great subject of the Deity. And, whilst humbling and expanding, this subject is eminently consolatary. Oh, there is, in contemplating Christ, a balm for every wound; in musing on the Father, there is a quietus for every grief; and in the influence of the Holy Ghost, there is a balsam for every sore. Would you lose your sorrows? Would you drown your cares? Then go, plunge yourself in the Godhead's deepest sea; be lost in his immensity; and you shall come forth as from a couch of rest, refreshed and invigorated. I know nothing which can so comfort the soul; so calm the swelling billows of grief and sorrow; so speak peace to the winds of trial, as a devout musing upon the subject of the Godhead. It is to that subject that I invite you this morning. We shall present you with one view of it,—that is the immutability of the glorious Jehovah. "I am," says my text, "Jehovah," (for so it should be translated) "I am Jehovah, I change not: therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." There are three things this morning. First of all, an unchanging God; secondly, the persons who derive benefit from this glorious attribute, "the sons of Jacob;" and thirdly, the benefit they so derive, they "are not consumed.' We address ourselves to these points." (C.H. Spurgeon) God Bless, John |
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3 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | Aixen7z4 | 100748 | ||
Dear John: I agree we should keep on learning. However, I think it is unfortunate when we think we are away from the truth and only getting closer to it. Yes, I know that you said "the full truth". But I think we already have it. The word of God is truth, and Jesus is the truth, and we have them both. Nor am I giving trite statements here. It would do us well to ponder. Each of us needs a greater apprehension of the truth. But we do not get that by arguing. When I am faced with the written word of God, I stand in awe and try to take it in. I do not cast it aside or explain it away. Every word of God is truth and it must be accepted. If you want deeper truth, I suggest that we reconcile in our own minds statements that seem to be contradictory. We do not learn by arguing. We do not win anything when we win arguments, for words are wind. We must accept the word of God as truth. We must appreciate a brother who points out a verse to us and incorporate in in our understanding. Only then should we have the nerve to try to teach. For me, the task of reconciling passages that seem to say different things does not bespeak a closed-minded attitude. It shows that we are open to all of the word of God. On the other hand, if we cannot come to a conclusion about anything, if we do not have the full truth on anything, then we are pitiful and unattractive. We are open to the charge that we are “ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth”. You don’t want to be like that! Do you, John? Now, I confess I do not know how to deal with statements such as "I am but of yesterday, and know nothing". I hesitate to say I do not agree with that at all. As far as I know it is not in scripture and I think I should not try to deal with it at all. But it does remind me of a question God asks us through Isaiah: “Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?” God is giving us his truth, and we need not remain in the land of ever learning. |
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4 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | John Reformed | 100774 | ||
. Dear Noble, My point is that we have been given the truth but we at times err in our understanding of it. The divisions over what orthodox Christians claim to be correct interpretations are manifold. We certainly shouldn’t just ignore our differences; neither should we be belligerent in our arguments. Argue: To debate or discuss; to treat by reasoning; as, the counsel argued the cause before a full court; the cause was well argued. “Every word of God is truth and it must be accepted. If you want deeper truth, I suggest that we reconcile in our own minds statements that seem to be contradictory.” Would you mind explaining what you mean by “reconcile in our own minds statements that seem to be”? “We do not win anything when we win arguments, for words are wind.” Who said that winning arguments for the sake of self-aggrandizement was of any value? Our goal should be coming to the proper understanding of Scripture for the glory of God! When God, by His Spirit, grants us mutual understanding we all win. “We must appreciate a brother who points out a verse to us and incorporate in our understanding. Only then should we have the nerve to try to teach.” I have nothing against appreciating anyone used by God as a means of enlightenment. Teaching is a gift that God bestows on certain one’s of His choosing. I make no claim to have that gift. Reconciling seemingly contradictory passages can be difficult. What one must bear in mind is that doctrine is made through the harmonizing of verses with one another without sacrificing the truth of either one. Our appeal is to the whole Word of God. It is our touchstone. Job 8:9 "For we are only of yesterday and know nothing, Because our days on earth are as a shadow." God is giving us his truth, and we need not remain in the land of ever learning. Compared to God we know nothing. I believe we will, throughout eternity, continue to learn that which He is pleased to teach us. John |
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5 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | Aixen7z4 | 100806 | ||
Dear John: I admire your attitude. And it is good too see this admission that we have so much to learn. But we should not minimize our ability to learn, or the opportunities we have to learn, or the fact that, the Holy Spirit teaching us, we are learning. There is no question about the fact that “Compared to God we know (almost) nothing”. God has not revealed everything to us. “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God". But "but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children”. God has revealed many things to us, things he wants us to know and do. It does not serve the purpose, I think, that you work so hard to make a case for ignorance. You say that we err in our understanding. That is so true. But Jesus says the reason is that we do not know the scriptures. John, that was back there when ordinary people did not even have access to the written word. Today we all have hard copies, and some of us have searchable electronic ones. The excuses are being taken away. Jesus says, “Search the Scriptures” and surely we can do that. The divisions over what orthodox Christians claim to be correct interpretations are manifold and unfortunate, and they are due to our willingness to listen to those proponents rather than going to the Bible ourselves. If we went straight to the word of God we would not be overly influenced by words such as “orthodox” and “interpretation” that are not even in the Bible. We certainly should just ignore the divisions caused by these orthodoxies, and cease our arguments. You ask: ‘Would you mind explaining what you mean by “reconcile in our own minds statements that seem to be”?’ but then you show that you do know what it’s all about as you speak about “harmonizing … verses with one another without sacrificing the truth of either one”. So I do not need to respond to that. Now as for "I am but of yesterday, and know nothing", I could hardly recognize it in that form. By isolating the statement and changing the personal pronoun, you seem to have developed another excuse for ignorance. But John, what had Bildad the Shuhite actually said? "Ask the people of past generations. Find out what their ancestors have learned. We have only been around since yesterday, and we know nothing. Our days on earth are only a fleeting shadow. Won't their words teach you? Won't they share their thoughts with you?” The people of past generations have written, in the Bible. And we can learn from them. It goes well with what the Lord says through Isaiah; to paraphrase: “Have we not been reading? Then why do we not know?” We can read, and read, and pray, and harmonize, and synthesize, and come to a knowledge of the truth. It is written. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. |
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6 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | John Reformed | 100833 | ||
Dear Noble, You wrote "it is good too see this admission that we have so much to learn. But we should not minimize our ability to learn, or the opportunities we have to learn, or the fact that, the Holy Spirit teaching us, we are learning." It seems as if you are modifiying your previous statement "God is giving us his truth, and we need not remain in the land of ever learning." If I have mis-understood, and you still hold to your previous claim, please tell me: At what point will we know everything about God that there is to know? 1 Pet 1:12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things into which angels long to look. It appears as if even the angels are still learning. Time to go to work. I look forward to your reply. God Bless, John |
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7 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | Aixen7z4 | 100890 | ||
Dear John: I hope you won’t be disappointed. I hope too, to give you something to rejoice in, and nothing with which to disagree. When will we know everything about God? I know nothing about that, but thank God, I already know him. I suppose I will know him better tomorrow. We have such wonderful things to look forward to, today and in the hereafter. Tell me what you think. Won't it be fun if the Lord would set us up as teachers, to explain some things to the angels and prophets? Take our salvation, for example. The prophets carefully researched and investigated this salvation. When long ago they spoke about God's kindness that would come to us, they did not understand it. They tried to find out what time or situation the Spirit of Christ kept referring to whenever he predicted Christ's sufferings and the glory that would follow, but it was a mystery. God told them that the things they had spoken were not for their own benefit but for ours. But listen: What the prophets had spoken, the Holy Spirit, who was sent from heaven, has now made known to us, has now made known to us, has now made known to us! Eye had not seen, nor ear heard, nor had it entered into the heart of man, they things which God had prepared for those who would love him. But God has revealed them unto us, has revealed them unto us, has revealed them unto us, by his Spirit. These things, the things that we now know, the angels desire to look into. They come into our assemblies. They look at us. They are still trying to understand. I wonder if they will ever fully understand, even in glory. Some things, I think, cannot be understood except by experience. I think that When I sing redemption’s story They will fold their wings For angels never felt the joy That our salvation brings. They know, I think, that he is holy. I wonder if they understand that God is love. We may have to tell them a few things about him, whom, having not seen, we loved; in whom, though on earth most of us never saw him with our natural eyes, yet believing, we rejoiced with joy unspeakable and full of glory. |
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8 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | John Reformed | 100896 | ||
Dear Noble, Dis-agreement, in itself, is not a bad thing. It is our penchant for being right (regardless of the evidence) that is sinful. Our Lord engaged in many dis-agreements Himself, so did the Apostles. Oh happy day when we at last will all be of one accord! But until that day we are to proclaim the truth according to the enlightenment with which we have been blessed; correcting, and, being corrected of error by the means which God has provided: Scripture. I have enjoyed our communication and, I pray, both of us have profited as a result of it. God Bless, John |
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9 | Isn't it a relay race? | 2 Cor 5:17 | Aixen7z4 | 101006 | ||
I must agree, and thereby be consistent. “Dis-agreement, in itself, is not a bad thing”, but if it is among ourselves as Christians, then it is. As Abraham would say, “Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, … for we be brethren”. I must also agree that a “penchant for being right (regardless of the evidence) … is sinful”. Let God be true and none of us right in our own eyes. I am not right. Yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. I agree that “our Lord engaged in many dis-agreements Himself”. He opposed the Scribes and the Pharisees and they opposed him. But how different he was with his brethren! He patiently and gently bore with them and taught them. So did the Apostles. They disputed with unbelievers. But with the believers, they were “gentle among (them), even as a nurse cherisheth her children”. Yes, I know about Paul and Peter and also about Paul and Barnabas. Let us read those stories again; read the whole stories, and understand. I will agree that “we are to proclaim the truth according to the enlightenment with which we have been blessed”. And we have been enlightened to the fact that we are not the final arbiters of truth. The word is the truth, and it has its own power. We know that Timothy was told to “speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority”. And so we ask, Does each of us then have that same authority? Each one claims the right to correct and professes a willingness to be corrected. But the record here shows that no minds are being changed. No one is in fact accepting correction. So, as the wise man said, you are not doing it if it is not being done. Take, my brethren, the present post, for an example of a plea, suggesting that we stop the arguing. Will it be accepted? If we are not careful, it is likely to stand as an object of correction itself. And so it goes. The idea seems to be ingrained in us that disagreement is good and leads to some greater good. And so we bypass the good things we agree on to strain at the the one point with which we can disagree. I ask you, what is the good? Convince yourself of it. The world stands by listening as believers debate endlessly whether the baptism they had was or was not necessary, after the fact, for their salvation. What is at stake here? Are we trying to get our brother saved? Are we trying to get him to believe that his baptism saved him? Or are we trying to get him to start over again? Does he have to believe that it saved him in order for it to save him? On the other hand, does he have to give up the belief that it was a part of his salvation in order to remove the “works” part and thus correct his salvation. Does he have to go back to the cross again? The issue is not whether we should be baptized. We have been. It is not even whether we should include the need for baptism the next time we preach the Gospel. And by the way, does all this talking leave us time to actually preach the Gospel? Jesus had a way of ending arguments with the authoritative use of Scripture. He would say, “It is written”, and the exchanges in which he engaged usually ended after two or three exchanges. We have exceeded that here, and I am as guilty as any. On the subject of Baptismal Regeneration I do not know how much I’ve said. On the subject of Beneficial Disagreeing I only offer this, that the real benefit comes from looking hard to see what your other brother saw in Scripture. Try that, and this will be a better forum. It might even include threads that make the Gospel so attractive, unbelieving visitors will get saved here. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel. Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. |
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