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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Tim Sheasby | 22329 | ||
EVERY EXAMPLE OF CONVERSION IN ACTS INCLUDES BAPTISM!!!! TRUE OR FALSE? JESUS SAID "HE WHO BELIEVES AND IS BAPTISED WILL BE SAVED" TRUE OR FALSE? PETER SAID "BAPTISM NOW ALSO *SAVES* US" 1 Pet 3:21 -- TRUE OR FALSE? Aditionally Acts 8:16 shows a situation where people had been baptized but the Holy Spirit had not come on them. Scripture most emphatically DOES stress the importance of baptism in Gods plan of salvation. |
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2 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | kalos | 22349 | ||
It is interesting to note that I made a number of points in my previous posting, yet you have not directly responded to any of them. This is not supposed to be a SHOUTING MATCH in which the objective is to see who can shout the loudest, while neither of us listens or responds to the other. In a debate, it is useful if you respond to the points that the other side makes. I will interact with anyone who has a specific comment or question about the passage in question. I will not respond to questions or posts that stray away from the specific passage being discussed. No hostility is intended here. This is merely my normal approach to an online debate with anyone over any topic. Grace to you, kalos |
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3 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Tim Sheasby | 22443 | ||
Please forgive me for allowing my anger free reign, that was wrong of me. So, to set matters right, here are my arguments: 1. You said that we are saved by faith alone. -- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by FAITH ALONE." NASB (emphasis mine) -- Acts 15 does clearly show that we are saved by grace. No argument there. Romans 4 also emphasised the fact that we cannot do enough work to EARN salvation. Our good works are not, and never will be, enough to save us. However, the debate is about what you have to do to RECEIVE this grace in the first place, and that is where baptism comes into force. Baptism is the transition from death to life and is symbolic of the burial of Christ. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and in the same way we have to die (Repent) be burried (baptism) and then rise to walk in newness of life Romans 6:3. 2. Peter's Sermon in Acts 3 does not mention baptism. -- In Peter's sermon in Acts 2 you will notice that he only mentioned baptism when the people, with conciences pierced by their guilt, asked "What must we do?". In Acts 3 this question was not asked. In EVERY place in acts where people come to the point of conversion baptism takes place. The only place you could show where this is not mentioned is the first account of the conversion of Paul. But in Paul's own recounting of that same event (same instance of conversion) Paul relates the words of Ananias in Acts 22:16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' 3. 1 Cor 15:1-4 does not mention baptism as part of the gospel. -- Neither does it mention faith, or grace. This is the gospel. As I pointed out in point 1 above, the problem is HOW to we take advantage of the gospel? What do we have to do to be saved? Our actions save us only in that they put us in the place where we can be saved by the blood of Christ. In 1 Peter 3:20-21 Peter tells how Noah was saved by obeying God's command. He was saved by the very water that destroyed everyone else! Peter also equates the water of baptism with the resurrection of Christ. 3a. Further you said 'Paul clearly understood baptism to be separate from the gospel, and hence in no way efficacious for salvation.' -- Remember that Paul was talking to people who were already saved here. If they had already been saved by repenting and being baptized there was no need for him to tell them this -- they all knew it already. This is the situation throughout the epistles -- written to those who had already been saved so the mechanisims of the new birth did not necessarily need to be re-itterated. 4. The accounts of salvation without baptism all precede the death of Christ on the cross (including the thief on the cross). While Christ was still on earth, and before his New Testament had been instituted, He had all authority to forgive sins. Today the only way you can get forgiveness of sins in the first place is through the waters of baptism -- That is why every example of conversion in Acts includes baptism. You cannot get any clearer than that. 4a. There is no account of the Apostles getting baptized. -- True, but there is certainly room for their baptism to have taken place in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost along with the rest of the 3000. Remember that Peter's sermon on that occasion was inspired and therefore the message applied equally to him and the other apostles as it did to the crowd. 5. You state that Cornelius was saved before he was baptized. -- The Bible does not say that he was saved, just that he received the Holy Spirit as had Peter and the other Apostles on the day of Pentecost. If baptism was such a minor thing as you seem to imply then why did Peter immediately call for them to BE baptized? At the end of the day we must indeed use scripture to interpred scripture and there are some vital issues with this regard. There is still no argument whatsoever against the simple command of Christ in Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptised will be saved". This alone should be sufficient but in Matt 28:19 Jesus says -- "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." The force of the word Baptizing here is that this is the mechanism for making disciples. And of cours 1 Peter 3:21 clearly equates baptism with salvation. Again, I apologise for my previous posting and hope this will answer clearly your objections. In Christ who redeems us Tim |
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4 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Reformer Joe | 22485 | ||
"4. The accounts of salvation without baptism all precede the death of Christ on the cross (including the thief on the cross). While Christ was still on earth, and before his New Testament had been instituted, He had all authority to forgive sins. Today the only way you can get forgiveness of sins in the first place is through the waters of baptism -- That is why every example of conversion in Acts includes baptism. You cannot get any clearer than that." Actually, chances are that the thief on the Cross probably died after Jesus, since He was already dead by the time they came around for the traditional breaking of the legs. And let it be clear that I hold that baptism is an essential first step in the believer's new life in Christ. I by no means want to indicate that it is merely a nice little "picture." It is obedience to our Lord God. However, baptism is a response to regeneration, not the cause of it. --Joe! |
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5 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Tim Sheasby | 22491 | ||
On the death of a testator it takes some time before the last will and testament is actioned. In the case of Jesus this happened 50 days later at Pentecost. In Acts 2:38 (for the umteenth time) Peter said "repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins". The 'for' here does not mean 'because of' but rather 'in order that' or 'so that' your sins can be forgiven. The grammar in the Greek indicates that repentance and baptism are PREREQUISITES to the forgiveness of sins. Salvation does not, and cannot come before baptism but rather at the moment of baptism. Tim |
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6 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | srbaegon | 22506 | ||
Information request........................... Could you cite your source for saying that there is this time period between death and the action of the will? I know this to be a common practice today, but I was curious where you found it to be true in Jesus' day. Thanks. Steve |
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