Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Tim Sheasby | 22443 | ||
Please forgive me for allowing my anger free reign, that was wrong of me. So, to set matters right, here are my arguments: 1. You said that we are saved by faith alone. -- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by FAITH ALONE." NASB (emphasis mine) -- Acts 15 does clearly show that we are saved by grace. No argument there. Romans 4 also emphasised the fact that we cannot do enough work to EARN salvation. Our good works are not, and never will be, enough to save us. However, the debate is about what you have to do to RECEIVE this grace in the first place, and that is where baptism comes into force. Baptism is the transition from death to life and is symbolic of the burial of Christ. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and in the same way we have to die (Repent) be burried (baptism) and then rise to walk in newness of life Romans 6:3. 2. Peter's Sermon in Acts 3 does not mention baptism. -- In Peter's sermon in Acts 2 you will notice that he only mentioned baptism when the people, with conciences pierced by their guilt, asked "What must we do?". In Acts 3 this question was not asked. In EVERY place in acts where people come to the point of conversion baptism takes place. The only place you could show where this is not mentioned is the first account of the conversion of Paul. But in Paul's own recounting of that same event (same instance of conversion) Paul relates the words of Ananias in Acts 22:16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' 3. 1 Cor 15:1-4 does not mention baptism as part of the gospel. -- Neither does it mention faith, or grace. This is the gospel. As I pointed out in point 1 above, the problem is HOW to we take advantage of the gospel? What do we have to do to be saved? Our actions save us only in that they put us in the place where we can be saved by the blood of Christ. In 1 Peter 3:20-21 Peter tells how Noah was saved by obeying God's command. He was saved by the very water that destroyed everyone else! Peter also equates the water of baptism with the resurrection of Christ. 3a. Further you said 'Paul clearly understood baptism to be separate from the gospel, and hence in no way efficacious for salvation.' -- Remember that Paul was talking to people who were already saved here. If they had already been saved by repenting and being baptized there was no need for him to tell them this -- they all knew it already. This is the situation throughout the epistles -- written to those who had already been saved so the mechanisims of the new birth did not necessarily need to be re-itterated. 4. The accounts of salvation without baptism all precede the death of Christ on the cross (including the thief on the cross). While Christ was still on earth, and before his New Testament had been instituted, He had all authority to forgive sins. Today the only way you can get forgiveness of sins in the first place is through the waters of baptism -- That is why every example of conversion in Acts includes baptism. You cannot get any clearer than that. 4a. There is no account of the Apostles getting baptized. -- True, but there is certainly room for their baptism to have taken place in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost along with the rest of the 3000. Remember that Peter's sermon on that occasion was inspired and therefore the message applied equally to him and the other apostles as it did to the crowd. 5. You state that Cornelius was saved before he was baptized. -- The Bible does not say that he was saved, just that he received the Holy Spirit as had Peter and the other Apostles on the day of Pentecost. If baptism was such a minor thing as you seem to imply then why did Peter immediately call for them to BE baptized? At the end of the day we must indeed use scripture to interpred scripture and there are some vital issues with this regard. There is still no argument whatsoever against the simple command of Christ in Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptised will be saved". This alone should be sufficient but in Matt 28:19 Jesus says -- "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." The force of the word Baptizing here is that this is the mechanism for making disciples. And of cours 1 Peter 3:21 clearly equates baptism with salvation. Again, I apologise for my previous posting and hope this will answer clearly your objections. In Christ who redeems us Tim |
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2 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | retxar | 22518 | ||
You wrote: “There is still no argument whatsoever against the simple command of Christ in Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved". Actually Mar 16:16 offers strong scriptural evidence that water baptism is NOT a salvation requirement. Mar 16:16 does not say belief AND baptism are required for salvation. It simply says "He who believes and is baptized will be saved”. I believe, have been baptized, go to church, pray, read my bible.... To say anything saves me besides believing (grace thru faith Eph 2:8-9), is not taught in the Word. No one who lives, has ever lived, or will ever live, will be saved by anything other than the blood of Jesus applied by grace thru faith! Anything else that could be considered “good” is a result of, not a means of salvation. The second part of Mar 16:16 tells us what CANNOT be left out; “but he who does not believe will be condemned”. If water baptism were a salvation requirement, Mar 16:16b should say “he who is not baptized in water will be condemned”. I can’t find that in the Word. If anyone insist that Mar 16:16 is saying water baptism is required for salvation, surly they must also believe that ALL the signs spoken of in the next two verses are requirements that MUST follow ALL believers who are truly saved. How could they defend their interpretation of Mar 16:16 if they did not interpret Mar 16:17-18 in like manner? Is that your position, bro? If not, what allows anyone to add baptism without adding the other signs? We must balance scripture with scripture, not pick and choose. Please don’t assume that anyone who does not believe as you considers water baptism a “minor thing”. It is a clearly instructed for all believers to receive. However, to make water baptism out to be a means of salvation goes beyond what the Word teaches and substitutes the blood of Jesus with water of baptism. This debate is old and tired. Let’s move on. How about it, bro? In Christ Jesus, retxar |
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3 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | 22529 | |||
It is good that all of us can discuss the word of and try to find better understanding. However, regarding water baptism, let us look at water the scripture says about being baptized of water and Spirit: As Nicodemus was confused about how a man can be born again and inherit the Kingdom of God. John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3 : |
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4 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | 22536 | |||
It is good that all of us can discuss the word of God and try to find a better understanding. However, regarding water baptism, let us look at what the scripture says about being baptized of water and Spirit: As Nicodemus was confused about how a man can be born again and inherit the Kingdom of God. John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. |
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5 | why is baptism important | 2 Cor 5:17 | Makarios | 22627 | ||
Greetings Cox! I will re-post this once again, in response to your post... --------------------- Does John 3:1-5 teach that a person must be baptized in order to be saved? Some have concluded that the reference to being "born of water" (John 3:5) means one must be baptized in order to be saved. But this is not what Jesus was intending to teach. Consulting the context of John 3 clears up Jesus' intended meaning. Let us begin by emphasizing that being "born again" (literally, "born from above") simply refers to the act of God by which He gives eternal life to the one who believes in Christ (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). Being "born again" thus places one into God's eternal family (1 Peter 1:23) and gives the believer a new capacity and desire to please the Father (2 Corinthians 5:17). Now, critical to a proper understanding of John 3:1-5 is verse 6: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (NASB). Flesh can only reproduce itself as flesh- and flesh cannot pass muster with God (cf. Romans 8:8). The law of reproduction is "after its kind" (see Genesis 1). So, likewise, the Spirit produces spirit. In Nicodemus's case, we find a Pharisee who would have been trusting in his physical descent from Abraham for entrance into the Messiah's kingdom. The Jews believed that because they were physically related to Abraham, they were in a specially privileged position before God. Christ, however, denied such a possibility. Parents can trasmit to their children only the nature which they themselves possess. Since each parent's nature, because of Adam's sin, is sinful, each parent transmits a sinful nature to the child. And what is sinful cannot enter the kingdom of God (verse 5). The only way one can enter God's kingdom is to experience a spiritual rebirth, and this is precisely what Jesus is emphasizing to Nicodemus. The problem is, Nicodemus did not initially comprehend Jesus' meaning. Nicodemus wrongly concluded that Jesus was speaking of something related to physical birth, but could not understand how a person could go through physical birth a second time (John 3:4). So, Jesus picked up on Nicodemus' line of thought and sought to move the argument from physical birth to spiritual birth. Notice how Jesus went about His explanation to Nicodemus. He first speaks about being "born of water and the Spirit" in John 3:5, and then explains what He means by this in verse 6. It would seem that "born of water" in verse 5 is parallel to "born of the flesh" in verse 6, just as "born of ... the Spirit" in verse 5 is parallel to "born of the Spirit" in verse 6. Jesus' message, then, is that just as one has had a physical birth to live on earth, so one must also have a spiritual birth in order to enter the kingdom of God. One must be "born from above." The verse thus has nothing whatsoever to do with water baptism. Blessings to you, Nolan |
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