Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | servetus | 234631 | ||
Hey Tim, Sorry for the delay. I was out of town for a couple of days for the holiday in an area without internet service. I read your last post before I left but didn't have time to respond. I've got to say, there wasn't one hour that went by that I didn't think about your response. I thought I knew all the variations of the gospel within the Trinitarian Protestant Religion but I was wrong. I was wondering how you were going to say you disagree with my former pastor when he didn't say anything about UNDERSTANDING the "binity". I was thinking you would say, "Nevermind, I misunderstood you and I do agree with your pastor that one must believe that the Son is co-equal, co-eternal, and con-substantial with the Father". I would have been fine with that. I figured that if you say that Jesus is claiming to be Yahweh then He is obviously "one-being" with the Father which would make him co-equal and co-eternal. I was just trying to get the details to the "heart" of your gospel and what it means to "accept Jesus as the I am". I wasn't trying to get an answer that would disprove the Deity of Christ. I was giving you an opportunity to be dogmatic about your gospel and lay a foundation for a debate with two opposing views. I've got to say, I was not expecting this curveball! So, it's not that I would "RATHER" substitute believe for understand it's that I HAVE TO because my former pastor never said anything about understanding this. So, I hate to put words in your mouth but you gave me the liberty to substitute believe for understand. So once again, my former pastor says, "People will 'die in their sins' if they don't believe Jesus is co-equal, co-eternal, and con-substantial (one being) with the person of Jehovah. If Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah then He is obviously claiming to be the "being" of Jehovah." And your response is "Yes, I agree that Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah in these verses but I disagree with you because one does not have to fully BELIEVE the nature of Jesus." Huh??? I never thought that there could be a degree of belief for salvation. What's the line? It sounds like an agnostic has a better chance under the implications of your gospel than I do. If a disinterested agnostic doesn't really believe that Jesus could be Yahweh but doesn't completely deny it, he would have a lot better chance of salvation under your gospel than a passionate person like myself who has only accepted Jesus as Yahweh's Son. Tim, we have hit a big speed bump. I can't believe this is taking so long. I thought you would have been a lot more dogmatic about the "heart" of your gospel. I know you are saying you are being as direct as you can but your e-mails don't show it. In your first post (234442) you said that Jesus is clearly stating that He is God in John 8:24. In your next post (234450) you said, "One must understand and accept the true nature of Jesus in order to be saved." And then you said in post (234544), "Must someone fully understand the truth of His nature in order to be saved? NO!NO!NO!". Then you finished the sentence to my hypothetical scenario by saying, one does not "have to fully understand the nature of Jesus." Furthermore, you said I was "making too much of the supposed difference between 'understand' and 'believe'" and that if I substituted these two words it wouldn't change the meaning to your answer." I think it definitely does change the meaning of your answer because it seems to be changing the verse to say, "for unless you partially believe that I am he, you shall die in your sins". Does the righteous man live by partial faith? I have never heard this variation to the gospel so let me know if I have misrepresented you. And if I have, let me know what it means to accept Jesus as the "I am". One more question. To get a full grasp of your gospel I was wondering if you have to accept Jesus as the "I am" before salvation or after salvation. As you know I have rejected Jesus being the "I am" so I'm wondering if I am even saved according to your understanding of scripture. God Bless, Andy |
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2 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | TMcCully | 234640 | ||
I am not the Tim you refer to, but Tim McCully. I therefore haven't read the posts you refer to. The gospel I believe is that one must accept our own undeserving character, the full power of Jesus as God, that He gave his life to save us. One also cannot disrepect that Jesus was truly resurrected in body alive today. That combination is crucial because only God's complete power could make a sacrifice pure and powerful enough to erase our failures and qualify us to be with Him. That combination is needed because God's righteousness is perfect. That He was bodily resurrected is His demonstration of that same power. I would dispute anyone who claimed that anything more detailed is expected from Scripture. Believing and understanding are indeed distinct things. Earnest belief that Jesus is God, not inferior to any other being is required. Understanding the mysteries of God in detail is not. Try taking Proverbs 8 literally. It teaches that Wisdom in person was the architect of creation alongside Jehovah, and seeking Wisdom in person within God's Words is the only way to gain true eternal life. This also means understanding is very important because that is the purpose of Wisdom. Notice the wonderful things God's words provide in Genesis One after that awful chaos of that first dark night. That God's Words are so powerfully good means His spoken words in Genesis One are living Wisdom. "I am" is who Jesus claims to be. One cannot doubt the ultimate power of Jesus as God, without also doubting the necessity of the full power of God's pure sacrifice for our salvation. It is the only important reason to actually love God. One of my favorite "I am" quotes is in John 18:6, which has the word "he" added to the inspired words. When the mob came to arrest Jesus, He asked twice "whom do you seek?". They said Jesus. In Jesus' second response the word "he" is added to verse six. It is in italics on BibleGateway.com for the NASB. 5 They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He *said to them, “I am He.” And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. 6 So when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground. In the inspired words "I am" is His response in verse 6. That they fell to the ground on their faces then was a clear demonstration of what "I am" means coming from the only Messiah. Keep seeking! Tim McCully |
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