Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | Andy S. | 234556 | ||
Hey Tim, It looks like I'm not the only one who thinks you are dodging this question. Servetus is right. I never said my former pastor said I had to UNDERSTAND how Jesus is Yahweh, he said I just have to BELIEVE Jesus is Yahweh. These are two totally different things. Tim, if someone could truly understand every aspect of how the Son of God can actually be the Supreme God himself, the person could make millions of dollars writing books about this. I said I agree with you that our finite minds cannot fully comprehend God. So I repeat: My pastor did not say I have to UNDERSTAND any of this. He only said I have to BELIEVE it. I remember him even referencing the Samson story and saying you don't have to understand how Samson's hair gives him strength, you only have to believe it. So back to the same wording in the hypothetical scenario in the coffee shop I gave you. I really don't see how you would have any disagreement. My former pastor is talking to you and says, "People will 'die in their sins' if they don't BELIEVE Jesus is co-equal, co-eternal and con-substantial (one being) with the person of Jehovah. If Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah then He is obviously claiming to be the "being" of Jehovah". So Tim, sorry for the misunderstanding. But knowing that my former pastor said nothing about the requirement of having to UNDERSTAND a binity, what is your response to his statement. Finish this conversation. Do you say I agree... or do you say I disagree because.... I can't move on if you are not honest with this. I'm not the only one who thinks you might be dodging this question. Servetus even said he didn't remember my pastor saying one must understand this. And then you completed the sentence in his post and said I disagree because one does not have to fully UNDERSTAND the nature of Jesus. You have not answered my question as "directly" as you can. I need to first establish the truth to your gospel and then I will let you know about all my presuppositions. I would love to discuss all the scripture you gave me especially the comparison of Mar. 13:6 and Mat. 24:5. I definitely think you are reading waaaaay to much into these "I am" statements. I look forward to our continued discussion on the truth to the gospel message. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving. God Bless, Andy |
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2 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | Morant61 | 234579 | ||
Greetings Andy! I think you are making too much of the supposed difference between 'understand' and 'believe'. Can someone really 'believe' that Jesus is "co-equal, co-eternal and con-substantial (one being) with the person of Jehovah" without having some understanding of what that means? If you would rather substitute 'believe' for 'understand' in my answer, feel free. But, it doesn't change the meaning of my answer. You may not agree with my answer, but no matter how many ways you ask the question, my answer is going to stay the same. :-) Now, in a conversation, there has to be two way communication. Is it really fair that you keep asking for my views of these verses, yet will not share what your views are on this topic. As I see it, there are only three possibilities. 1) You accept the orthodox doctrines of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, but just don't see them in John 8:24. 2) You accept the Deity of Christ, but reject the Trinity. But, if this were the case, I don't see why you would have such an issue with John 8:24. 3) You reject both the Deity of Christ and the Trinity. If I had to guess, and I do since you won't tell us what you believe, I would say the third option is the correct one. You seem to be trying to get an answer that you want about John 8:24. I'm guessing that you think that if you get that answer, you can then 'disprove' the Deity of Christ. However, neither doctrine stands or falls upon this one verse. Even if John 8:24 is not an allusion to Ex. 3:14, there is plenty of Scripture that demonstrates Jesus is Jehovah. So, please, let's have a real conversation! Tell us what it is you really believe. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | servetus | 234631 | ||
Hey Tim, Sorry for the delay. I was out of town for a couple of days for the holiday in an area without internet service. I read your last post before I left but didn't have time to respond. I've got to say, there wasn't one hour that went by that I didn't think about your response. I thought I knew all the variations of the gospel within the Trinitarian Protestant Religion but I was wrong. I was wondering how you were going to say you disagree with my former pastor when he didn't say anything about UNDERSTANDING the "binity". I was thinking you would say, "Nevermind, I misunderstood you and I do agree with your pastor that one must believe that the Son is co-equal, co-eternal, and con-substantial with the Father". I would have been fine with that. I figured that if you say that Jesus is claiming to be Yahweh then He is obviously "one-being" with the Father which would make him co-equal and co-eternal. I was just trying to get the details to the "heart" of your gospel and what it means to "accept Jesus as the I am". I wasn't trying to get an answer that would disprove the Deity of Christ. I was giving you an opportunity to be dogmatic about your gospel and lay a foundation for a debate with two opposing views. I've got to say, I was not expecting this curveball! So, it's not that I would "RATHER" substitute believe for understand it's that I HAVE TO because my former pastor never said anything about understanding this. So, I hate to put words in your mouth but you gave me the liberty to substitute believe for understand. So once again, my former pastor says, "People will 'die in their sins' if they don't believe Jesus is co-equal, co-eternal, and con-substantial (one being) with the person of Jehovah. If Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah then He is obviously claiming to be the "being" of Jehovah." And your response is "Yes, I agree that Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah in these verses but I disagree with you because one does not have to fully BELIEVE the nature of Jesus." Huh??? I never thought that there could be a degree of belief for salvation. What's the line? It sounds like an agnostic has a better chance under the implications of your gospel than I do. If a disinterested agnostic doesn't really believe that Jesus could be Yahweh but doesn't completely deny it, he would have a lot better chance of salvation under your gospel than a passionate person like myself who has only accepted Jesus as Yahweh's Son. Tim, we have hit a big speed bump. I can't believe this is taking so long. I thought you would have been a lot more dogmatic about the "heart" of your gospel. I know you are saying you are being as direct as you can but your e-mails don't show it. In your first post (234442) you said that Jesus is clearly stating that He is God in John 8:24. In your next post (234450) you said, "One must understand and accept the true nature of Jesus in order to be saved." And then you said in post (234544), "Must someone fully understand the truth of His nature in order to be saved? NO!NO!NO!". Then you finished the sentence to my hypothetical scenario by saying, one does not "have to fully understand the nature of Jesus." Furthermore, you said I was "making too much of the supposed difference between 'understand' and 'believe'" and that if I substituted these two words it wouldn't change the meaning to your answer." I think it definitely does change the meaning of your answer because it seems to be changing the verse to say, "for unless you partially believe that I am he, you shall die in your sins". Does the righteous man live by partial faith? I have never heard this variation to the gospel so let me know if I have misrepresented you. And if I have, let me know what it means to accept Jesus as the "I am". One more question. To get a full grasp of your gospel I was wondering if you have to accept Jesus as the "I am" before salvation or after salvation. As you know I have rejected Jesus being the "I am" so I'm wondering if I am even saved according to your understanding of scripture. God Bless, Andy |
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4 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | Morant61 | 234632 | ||
Greetings! First of all, I need to ask if you are a bi-entity! You are posting as Servetus and Andy? So, what, you're supporting your own posts? Tim |
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