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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | die in your sins | John 8:24 | EdB | 234562 | ||
Andy or Tim I ask that one of you would explain this to me, what makes the “I am” of John 8:24 different than the two "I am" that are found in John 8:23. In fact this passage John 8:12-30 is filled with declarations of Jesus where Jesus uses the term "I am". What makes you focus on the 8:24 “I am”? |
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2 | die in your sins | John 8:24 | Andy S. | 234576 | ||
Hey EdB, Good to hear from you again. That is a great question. It's probably the best question I've received since being on this forum. Tim is saying that because Jesus is saying "I am" in John 8:24 that one must believe that Jesus is Jehovah or they will "die in their sins". Tim, like most "orthodox" Christians, is saying that Jesus is claiming the Divine Title found in Exodus 3:14 ("I am"). So the verse would loosly read, "...unless you believe that I am Yahweh, you shall die in your sins." I have found this verse to be extremely controversial within the Christian Community. If you read this entire thread you will see that I am challenging Tim's claim that this "I am" statement is a verb and not a Title. The other thread to read concerning this topic is entitled "I am who I am". I think you know of this thread because I tried to answer one of your questions. Some of his best evidence is the way the Jews reacted in John 8:58 when he again said "I am". This is the only verse in the whole Bible that makes it a requirement to believe that Jesus is actually Jehovah. In other words, according to Tim's interpretation, people must believe that Jesus is the Son of God and God. To answer your question, I would say nothing is different from John 8:24 to the two "I am's" in John 8:23. Tim has a different opinion which he does a good job explaining his position in this thread. When I started questioning this verse I had the exact question as you. I think Tim is reading waaaay too much into these "I am" statements. The debate is really over if this "I am" statement is just a verb or a title. There is really no easy answer and all Tim and I really have is circumstantial evidence. This verse either adds to the doctrine of salvation or subtracts from the doctrine of salvation depending on how you interpret it. I had a problem with this verse in my Christian walk because I wasn't saved under the impression that Jesus was the Son of God and God. I had no idea what the definition of Trinity was. 6 months after I was saved I found out from my pastor that I would "die in my sins" if I didn't believe Jesus was also God. I was only under the impression that God sent his Son and Jesus loved and obeyed His Father and that is why He was the perfect atonement for my sins. I was not under the impression that God loved and obeyed Himself that He sacrificed Himself to Himself to atone for the sins of the world. My former pastor told me that if I didn't accept that Yahweh and Jesus were co-eternal, co-equal, and con-substantial then I would "die in my sins" according to his interpretation of John 8:24. I hope this helps a little. I would encourage you to keep an eye on this thread. Tim and I have laid a foundation for a great debate. He seems very intelligent. God Bless, Andy |
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3 | die in your sins | John 8:24 | EdB | 234577 | ||
To me the I am's in John 8:12-30 are affirmations by Jesus to the Jews present that he is the Christ the Messiah. John 8:58 affirms his eternal being. John 1:1 tells me he was God. I do not believe John 8:24 is saying you have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. I believe you must believe you are sinful, that without salvation you are doomed to damnation, that you can not save yourself but that you need a Savior, Jesus is that Savior, that the blood of Jesus poured out for the remission of our sins, paid the price and atoned and washed away our sins. I further believe that as a Christian we must continue to grow and learn and it is during this growing and learning that we learn Jesus was fully God and fully man. |
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