Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Was the blind man God? | John 8:24 | Morant61 | 234501 | ||
Greetings Andy! Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I work nights, so there maybe a little lag in our conversation. Allow me to touch upon a couple of things. 1) My purpose behind the quotes was to demonstrate two things. First of all, there is very little that Scripture says we are required to believe in order to be saved. As you noted, most six year old kids don't even know their address. I did, but that is beside the point. :-) Secondly, there is no mention that we must understand the Trinity in order to be saved. But, we do need to understand the true nature of Jesus. He is fully God. He is also fully man. We can't be saved if we simply view Him as being a 'good teacher'. So, I would maintain that accepting Jesus as the "I am" is not a perversion of the Gospel, but the heart of it. Thus far, you have not articulated your position. Most who reject the Trinity either take one of two position. One, they believe that Jesus is a lesser being than the Father. Or, two, they believe that Jesus, Father, and Spirit are all just one name for one Person. Which position do you hold? 2) Blind man: The blind man was responding the questions about whether or not he was the man born blind. He responded, "I am." Using the 'to be' verb much in the same way that we do. However, Jesus makes a statement in John 8:24 that would not make sense in the ordinary usage of the word. You must believe that 'I exist'. Jesus was standing right in front of them. Of course, they knew that He existed. ;-) He meant something else. I believe He was appealing back to Ex. 3:14. The discussion progresses and finally in John 8:58, Jesus makes a claim that can only be true of God, not any mere man, using the 'I am' in a dual sense. Jesus was claiming to be God, and stating that He existed in the time of Abraham. 3) I'll address your Ex. 3:14 question in your other post my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | do you believe in binity? | John 8:24 | Andy S. | 234517 | ||
Hey Tim, I hope I didn't come off as sarcastic when I mentioned the fact that you were saved at the age of six. I love testimonies! I just heard Woodrool Kroll's (sorry for the spelling) testimony and he was saved at the age of 5. Tim, I believe in God and the supernatural and I truly do believe that you could be saved at the age of 6. It's been a long time but maybe I did know my address at the age of 6 but I certainly didn't know the nature of Jesus. I didn't know that the Son of God could also be God. I was probably wondering how Clark Kent could actually be Superman. I definitely didn't know at the age of 6 that I was a sinner in need of a savior. I'm curious though. You said you need to know the nature of Jesus in order to be saved. Did you know the entire nature of Jesus? Did you know of the Hypostatic Union and how He had two wills and natures? If you could understand this then your supernatural story is incredible! It is fascinating how you could understand that God loved and obeyed Himself that he sacrificed Himself to Himself in order to atone for the sins of mankind. Please let me know more. I love hearing testimonies! Also, did you discover God's plan of redemption on your own through reading parts of the Bible on your own or were you told the "gospel" by someone? My testimony goes as follows: I was an alcoholic and a pothead. I started going to church and was blessed with a pastor who preached repentence and daily reading of the Bible. I read the Bible and discovered that it is truly God's word and found His plan of redemption and accepted it. I knew I was a sinner in need of a savior and knew that Jesus was that savior. I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and knew in my heart that He was the incarnate Son OF God. I immediately experienced conviction and by the grace of God I was freed from my bondage of sin that separated me from God. My pastor taught me to be a Berean. One problem! I never knew what the definition to the Trinity was before I was saved. I had no idea that Jesus was Yahweh. When my pastor got to John 8:24 in his verse by verse study I discovered, according to his understanding of this verse, that I was going to "die in my sins" and I immediately questioned my salvation. I worked out my salvation with "fear and trembling" and studied every aspect of this verse before I accepted or rejected my pastor's interpretation. I ended up rejecting his interpretation which landed me in my own home church. One thing I learned about Church history is that people will be persecuted or ostracized if you disagree with the majority. Nothing new is under the sun. Tim, I would love to address some of your points but we need to slow down for BradK. He is confused over the word Binity. By Binity I mean that the Father and Son are co-qequal, co-eternal, and con-substantial. you said that in John 8:24 that Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah. So is it fair to say that you believe that one will "die in their sins" if they don't believe that the Father and Son are co-equal, co-eternal and con-substantial (One being). I know there's no mention that one must understand this in order to be saved but you are saying that one must believe this right? In other words, believing that Jesus is the "being" of Jehovah is a requirement of belief according to your understanding of scripture. By the way, I gave DPMartin a chance to agree with you since you said you two are in agreement that Jesus is claiming in John 8:24 to be Jehovah. It didn't sound like he is in complete agreement with you. I didn't see anywhere in his post that Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah or that you will "die in your sins" if you don't think Jesus is Jehovah. His post is entitled "Andy I don't have an interpretation of...". Religion is defined as a specific set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects. You see why I say the Trinitarian Protestant Religion can't be entirely true. People within the religion cannot agree on the requirement of belief needed for salvation. The religion has turned into chasing the "right" gospel. God Bless, Andy |
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3 | do you believe in binity? | John 8:24 | Morant61 | 234528 | ||
Greetings Andy! Thanks for the testimony my friend! Trust me, I did not take any offense at your comment. :-) Your testimony though illustrates what I have been trying to say. I wish we could talk face to face. It would be so much easier to be clear. :-) My point has been that when we are first saved, we understand very little. You knew that you were lost and needed a Savior. You knew that Jesus was that Savior. Could you explain or even understand the Hypostatic Union? There are some who have been Christians for many years who still could not explain it. ;-) So, what I was trying to say with my quotes about 'believe' is that there is not a long checklist of doctrine that one must fully understand and believe before they can be saved. Remember General Booth's vision of the lost, where millions were drowning and he was called to throw life preservers to those who were dying? To say that one must understand all these different points of doctrine prior to be saved is like saying that one must understand the make and model of the lifeboat, must understand the tolerances of the robe, must understand the amount of weight that the preserver can carry, before one can reach out and grab it. Our understanding of God progresses throughout our lives, and even then it will never be complete. As a finite being myself, I will never fully be able to understand our infinite God. So, I would disagree with your former pastor's understanding of John 8:24. But, as I demonstrated with my quotes about 'believe', there is very little that Scripture says we "MUST" believe to be saved. I am sure there are those out there who would argue that one must believe the Trinity before salvation, but they are wrong. By the way, if you are looking for complete agreement on every point with the Protestant faith, you will be continually disappointed. :-) Truth is truth because it is true, not because everyone agrees with it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | Andy S. | 234539 | ||
Hey Tim, Wow, it took a long time but we finally see eye to eye one one thing. I agree, I will never be able to understand our infinite God. I don't know why we would have to meet face to face. I think you can be much clearer through e-mailing because you have a delete button if you want to take anything back that you have written. We have been talking about the truth of the gospel and since the gospel is simple it should be easy to give a clear answer. You said there is not a long checklist of doctrine that one must believe in order to be saved. Your checklist is longer than mine my friend because of how you interpret John 8:24. Wait just a second. I can't believe I have to ask you this again but how do you interpret John 8:24. I said we had to slow down for BradK but now we have to slow down for my sake. I promised BradK you are "well-rounded" but now I'm not so sure. Your going to really have to explain yourself. You said you disagree with my former pastor's understanding of John 8:24. Let me put you in a hypothetical scenario. You are having a Bible Study at a coffee shop with my former Pastor and you guys agree that Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah through these "I am" statements in John chapter 8. And my former pastor says, "People will "die in their sins" if they don't believe Jesus is co-equal, co-eternal and con-substantial (one being) with the person of Jehovah. If Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah then He is obviously claiming to be the "being" of Jehovah". And you respond, "Yes I agree that Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah in these verses but I disagree with you because....". Can you please complete this sentence for me? If you don't mind I'm going to send people over to this thread so we can just use one thread. I want to respond to your other thread but I would like this question answered and I'm going to use that thread to notify people we are now using this thread. So ignore your second e-mail. I just read your last sentence. I take it back, there are two things we have agreed on. "Truth is truth because it is true, not because everyone agrees with it." THAT'S THE TRUTH! God Bless and Happy Thanksgiving, Andy |
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5 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | Morant61 | 234544 | ||
Greetings Andy! The reason I mentioned meeting face to face (not that it will probably ever happen) is that posts are not a very effective way to communicate. As evidence, even though I have explained several times what I believe about John 8:24 and salvation, you are still asking for me to answer. To begin my answer again, allow me to quote from JFB: "if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins — They knew well enough what He meant (Mar_13:6, Greek; compare Mat_24:5). But He would not, by speaking it out, give them the materials for a charge for which they were watching. At the same time, one is irresistibly reminded by such language, so far transcending what is becoming in men, of those ancient declarations of the God of Israel, “I AM HE” (Deu_32:39; Isa_43:10, Isa_43:13; Isa_46:4; Isa_48:12). See on Joh_6:20." Jesus is fully God. He is God incarnate. He is the Son of God. He is our Priest, our King, and Our Sacrifice. One cannot be saved if they do not understand at least some of this about Jesus. But, our understanding about Jesus prior to salvation, during salvation, and even in Heaven, is progressive in nature. Must someone fully understand the truth of His nature in order to be saved? NO! NO! NO! That is where I disagree with your former pastor's statement. Someone need not be able to fully explain the doctrine of the Trinity in order to be saved! However, someone cannot also not be saved if they believe that Jesus is just a great teacher, a man with wonderful insights. Now, I have answered your question as directly as I can. Will you answer a few for me? Who do you say Jesus is? Is He fully God? In other words, do you reject the Deity of Christ? Do you reject the Trinity itself or just the view that one must understand the Trinity to be saved? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Interpret John 8:24 | John 8:24 | servetus | 234548 | ||
Hi Tim, I don't think Andy ever wrote that his pastor said he had to UNDERSTAND the Trinity. He just said that he must believe that Jesus is Jehovah unless he would die in his sins. Andy asked you if you have to believe in a binity in order to not die in your sins. It seems like you would have to say yes if you think Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah by saying "I am". You would have to believe Jesus is consubstantial, equal and eternal with the "being" of Jehovah. Why didn't you complete his sentence? I find this topic to be very compelling and it is even more interesting because I haven't found another VERSE in the Bible that makes it mandatory for one to believe that Jesus is Jehovah. I hope you had a good turkey day! Servetus |
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