Results 1 - 10 of 10
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 1st 400 yrs. "all" agreed on John 3:5 | John 3:5 | Hank | 113305 | ||
What evidence do you have that the early church, i.e., the church during the first 400 years of the Christian era, uniformly agreed and taught that John 3:5 refers to water baptism? --Hank | ||||||
2 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | arrow1 | 113343 | ||
Hank, Have you ever heard of Justin Martyr, Polycarp, Tertullian, Origen, Clement, Cyprian, Read their writings, they all agreed saved by grace through faith at baptism. The Nicene Creed, written prior to the canonization of the Bible in 325 AD states "one baptism for the forgiviness of sins". The Nicene Creed also established the doctrine of the Trinity(I assume you believe in that)My gosh, the guys who decided what books go in the NT all beleived water baptism as essential to salvation. My challenge to you is this, quote me just one guy, a priest, church historian, Pastor, elder, deacon, a slave, a roman pagan, just anyone at all who lived in the 1st or 2nd century who believed in "faith alone" apart from baptism, just one. |
||||||
3 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | Hank | 113345 | ||
Arrow1: I believe I'm able to satisfy your requirement to quote you "just one" who "lived in the first or second century (A.D.) who believed in (salvation by) 'faith alone' apart from baptism" ...... I offer two separate quotations, both from a first-century Christian missionary of no small consequence. The first quotation reads as follows: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as the result of works, so that no one may boast." ..... And the second quotation is the answer to a jailer who asked what he must do to be saved. The answer reads, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."....... The first quotation is from the Book of Ephesians, Chapter 2, Verses 8 and 9. The second from the Book of Acts, Chapter 16, Verses 30 and 31. The missionary whose words are herein quoted was named Paul, an Apostle of Jesus Christ. .... And thus I feel justified to write "QED" as my epilogue, having submitted, I believe, proof sufficient to meet your requirement. --Hank | ||||||
4 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | arrow1 | 113400 | ||
You are wrong about the quote to the jailer. Read verse 32 - He spoke "the word of the Lord" to him and his household. That was the complete message of the Gospel, not simply to believe. And that is why he was baptized immediately, because he was told to, it was part of the message(Peter's sermon). Notice it was after his baptism that he was filled with joy, because they had come to believe, he and his whole house. As to Eph. 2:8, compare it to Gal. 5:26-27. Saved by Grace through Faith at Baptism. Baptism is God's work not man's. Baptism is no more a work than is belief or repentance. It is simply our response to the Gospel, our pledge of a good concience. And like faith and repentance it is a requirement. |
||||||
5 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | Hank | 113416 | ||
Arrow1: How can I defend myself against your charge that I misquoted Acts 16:31? All I know to do is to ask the Forum to compare my quotation of this verse which I gave in Post # 113345 with the NASB text and decide for themselves. When a user of this Forum is accused falsely of tampering with the text, it is, to my mind, a grievous accusation calling for swift and complete redress. ...... As concerning your invitation to compare Ephesians 2:8 to Galatians 5:26,27, here's the problem: Galatians 5:26 says, "Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another." I ask you to explain to the Forum what THAT has to do with baptism at all, much less baptismal regeneration. And, by the way, the other verse you asked me to compare, i.e., Galatains 5:27, does not exist. Can it be that you yourself are subject to error, or am I being too presumptuous? --Hank | ||||||
6 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | arrow1 | 113437 | ||
My apology, first of all, I didn't mean you misquoted the passage, simply that in quoting verse 31 and leaving out verse 32, you leave out a considerable amount of what the jailer was told. As to Galatians, my BIG mistake, I meant chapter 3 verse 26-27, not 5:27, you're right it doesn't exist. Anyhow, now that I cleared that up, when the jailer asked what he must do, to simply say believe, well that's not the same thing as saying you are saved by grace thru faith alone, and obviously, verse 32 infers alot was added to that including the instruction to be baptized, otherwise how would he have known to do it. |
||||||
7 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | kalos | 113441 | ||
False Additions to Faith "VI. THE CONDITION FOR SALVATION "A. The Condition. Salvation is conditioned solely on faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times faith, or belief, is stated as the single condition in the N.T. (John 1:12; Acts 16:31). That faith must be placed in Christ as one's substitute for and Saviour from sin. (...) "B. The False Additions to Faith. Through the ages other requirements in addition to faith have been wrongly added." One of these is: (...) "2. Baptism. Baptism is the visible testimony to one's salvation, but not a condition for it. Acts 2:38 should be translated, 'Repent and be baptized on the basis of the remission of sins.' Acts 22:16 teaches that baptism followed the arising, just as forgiveness followed the calling on the name of the Lord. The two parts of the verse should be kept distinct. Mark 16:16 is probably not a genuine part of Mark's Gospel" (p. 1950, Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1978). |
||||||
8 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134506 | ||
Kalos, Your 'Acts 2:38 should be translated..' is nonsense. Check every translation on the market, and tell me which one follows your avowedly biased rendering. You would rather change the Word of God, than change your doctrine. Shame. Clearly Acts 2:38 is among those passages of the Scriptures "which the unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction (2 Pet 3:16)" Changing scripture because you have a doctrine in mind is really pathetic! Dalcent |
||||||
9 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | kalos | 134525 | ||
Dalcent: Acts 2:38 (NET Bible) Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for[5] the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Footnote 5. translators' note. 'There is debate over the meaning of eij" in the prepositional phrase eij" a[fesin tw'n aJmartiw'n uJmw'n (eis afesin twn Jamartiwn Jumwn, “for/because of/with reference to the forgiveness of your sins”). Although a “causal” sense has been argued, it is difficult to maintain. D. B. Wallace, Exegetical Syntax, 369-71, discusses at least four other ways of dealing with the passage: '(1) The baptism referred to here is physical only, and eij" has the meaning of “for” or “unto.” Such a view suggests that salvation is based on works—an idea that runs counter to the theology of Acts, namely: (a) repentance often precedes baptism (cf. Acts 3:19; 26:20), and (b) salvation is entirely a gift of God, not procured via water baptism (Acts 10:43 [cf. v. 47]; 13:38-39, 48; 15:11; 16:30-31; 20:21; 26:18); '(2)The baptism referred to here is spiritual only. Although such a view fits well with the theology of Acts, it does not fit well with the obvious meaning of “baptism” in Acts—especially in this text (cf. 2:41); '(3)The text should be repunctuated in light of the shift from second person plural to third person singular back to second person plural again. The idea then would be, “Repent for/with reference to your sins, and let each one of you be baptized…” Such a view is an acceptable way of handling eij", but its subtlety and awkwardness are against it; '(4)Finally, it is possible that to a first-century Jewish audience (as well as to Peter), the idea of baptism might incorporate both the spiritual reality and the physical symbol. That Peter connects both closely in his thinking is clear from other passages such as Acts 10:47 and 11:15-16. If this interpretation is correct, then Acts 2:38 is saying very little about the specific theological relationship between the symbol and the reality, only that historically they were viewed together. 'One must look in other places for a theological analysis. For further discussion see R. N. Longenecker, “Acts,” EBC 9:283-85; B. Witherington, Acts, 154-55; F. F. Bruce, The Acts of the Apostles: The Greek Text with Introduction and Commentary, 129-30; BAGD 229 s.v. eij" 4.f.' (http://www.bible.org/cgi-bin/netbible.pl#note_5) God bless you, too, Kalos |
||||||
10 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134564 | ||
Kalos, The NET Bible does not favor this rendering but gives it as a footnote. I have no problem with reading about any hypothesis in a footnote in an evangelical Bible. Plenty of objections are raised such as 'difficult to maintain', 'awkward' etc. Nonetheless, the NET Bible correctly renders the verse the same as all the others. Dalcent |
||||||