Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172518 | ||
Hi John, Thank you for your answers. I think you may have misunderstood me, since you did not actually answer the question I asked. I know that all born again believer have faith. We have been talking about whether faith can exist in one before regeneration or not, but you have made this point moot by saying that you believe Abraham was a born again regenerate. Where does the Bible tell us that? Where in the Bible do you find the first "born from above" experience happening? I would answer No because we do not see the Holy Spirit indwelling believers until after the crucifixion. Hebrews tells us that these men and women of faith died without receiving the promise, the result of faith, (see 10:39) the preservation of soul, salvation - the new creation. Heb 11 39 And having obtained witness through the faith, these all did not obtain the promise, 40 God having foreseen something better concerning us, that they should not be perfected apart from us. Love in Christ, Mark PS - We're closing for the day, so I'm off the net til Monday. Good discussion, John! You really challenge me on these things! I am looking forward to continuing, if you don't burn out over the next couple of days. :-) |
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2 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | hobbs | 172543 | ||
Hi Mark, I think Doc has directed you to romans 4 regarding Abraham. You also asked..."Where in the Bible do you find the first "born from above" experience happening?...". Gen 4:4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; Abel - (Heb. Hebhel), a breath, or vanity, the second son of Adam and Eve. He was put to death by his brother Cain (Gen. 4:1-16). Guided by the instruction of their father, the two brothers were trained in the duty of worshipping God. "And in process of time" (marg. "at the end of days", i.e., on the Sabbath) each of them offered up to God of the first-fruits of his labours. Cain, as a husbandman, offered the fruits of the field; Abel, as a shepherd, of the firstlings of his flock. "The Lord had respect unto Abel and his offering; but unto Cain and his offering he had not respect" (Gen. 4:3-5). On this account Cain was angry with his brother, and formed the design of putting him to death; a design which he at length found an opportunity of carrying into effect (Gen. 4:8,9. Comp. 1 John 3:12). There are several references to Abel in the New Testament. Our Saviour speaks of him as "righteous" (Matt. 23:35). "The blood of sprinkling" is said to speak "better things than that of Abel" (Heb. 12:24); i.e., the blood of Jesus is the reality of which the blood of the offering made by Abel was only the type. The comparison here is between the sacrifice offered by Christ and that offered by Abel, and not between the blood of Christ calling for mercy and the blood of the murdered Abel calling for vengeance, as has sometimes been supposed. It is also said (Heb. 11:4) that "Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." This sacrifice was made "by faith;" this faith rested in God, not only as the Creator and the God of providence, but especially in God as the great Redeemer, whose sacrifice was typified by the sacrifices which, no doubt by the divine institution, were offered from the days of Adam downward. On account of that "faith" which looked forward to the great atoning sacrifice, Abel's offering was accepted of God. Cain's offering had no such reference, and therefore was rejected. Abel was the first martyr, as he was the first of our race to die. Easton's Bible Dictionary). John |
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3 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172599 | ||
Hi John, You are equating "having regard for" with "being born from above"? I didn't notice anything in Easton's entry that indicated that he thought Abel was "born from above". Could you be more specific in what you were quoting him to point out? What do you make of Jer. 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, declares Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." How do you think this "new" covenant differs from the "old" covenant, esp. in light of Luke 22:20 "And in like manner the cup, after having supped, saying, This cup is the New Covenant in My blood, which is being poured out for you," and 2 Cor 3:6 "who also made us able ministers of a new covenant, not of letter, but of Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive."? This seems to me to be that the old covenant was the letter of the Law, while the new covenant is the life of the Spirit, and the transition was through the death of Christ. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | hobbs | 172601 | ||
Hi mark, I'm at work so forgive the brevity of my replys. Don't worry about posting me...I'm the only one who I can get in trouble with...I'm self employed:-) Consider...Psa 4:3 But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him Does this not indicate that God's people had a spiritual status that was not held by the pagan (ungodly) peoples of the earth? Got to run.. John John |
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5 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172609 | ||
Hi John, To me this verse can be seen a few different ways, and does not make a definitive statement about regeneration. But what about Ezekiel 18, where the people's spiritual status was gained or lost based on their adherence to the Law? This was the fundamental weekness of the Old Covenant, while the New Covenant brought spiritual creation that could not die. Love in Christ, Mark |
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6 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | hobbs | 172623 | ||
Mark, You asked..."But what about Ezekiel 18, where the people's spiritual status was gained or lost based on their adherence to the Law? This was the fundamental weakness of the Old Covenant, while the New Covenant brought spiritual creation that could not die..." The only thing that the Law accomplished (besides instruction on what God expected from His people) was condemnation. No man (except Jesus)ever kept God's Law. The institution of animal sacrifce etc. was God's grace which He provided for His own people. No person has ever attained righteous status apart from grace and faith. John |
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7 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172631 | ||
Hi John, I have no doubt that that this turning from wickedness to righteousness included the sacrafices required in the OT, which looked forward to the death of Jesus, and looked ahead to the grace He would impart once all of our sins were actually paid for, nonetheless, this passage protrays the dispensational nature of the relationship between the OT and the NT. Eze 18:26 When a righteous one turns from his righteousness and does injustice and dies in them, he shall die for his injustice which he has done. Eze 18:27 And when the wicked turns from his wickedness that he has done and does justice and righteousness, he shall keep his soul alive. Eze 18:28 Because he sees and turns from all his transgressions that he has done, living he shall live; he shall not die. According to this passage, sinless moral excellance is not what is in view, as the wicked has the opportunity to turn to righteousness. But rebirth was not in view, either, as the righteous could later die in wickedness. Keeping the Law, utilizing the provision of sacrifice as looking ahead towards Jesus' sacrifice, is the only thing that seems to fit. This was faith in God to give grace, in covering their sins (not putting them away, the blood of bulls and goats cannot do that), until the Lamb's blood was shed, and their sins could be put away. Just my take on this - I know we disagree! :-) Love in Christ, Mark |
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