Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | hobbs | 172515 | ||
Dear Mark you asked..." does Scripture tell us that only the regenerate can be given faith?..." Without faith it is impossible to please God. Therfore, all born again believers have this gift of faith. ..."Were Old Testament Saints "born-again"? Did the Holy Spirit indwell, and create a new creation, in the saints during the Old Testament times?..." Absolutely YES! All true Isrealites are heirs to the promise and Abraham is the father of them all. John Why would you answer "no"? |
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2 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172518 | ||
Hi John, Thank you for your answers. I think you may have misunderstood me, since you did not actually answer the question I asked. I know that all born again believer have faith. We have been talking about whether faith can exist in one before regeneration or not, but you have made this point moot by saying that you believe Abraham was a born again regenerate. Where does the Bible tell us that? Where in the Bible do you find the first "born from above" experience happening? I would answer No because we do not see the Holy Spirit indwelling believers until after the crucifixion. Hebrews tells us that these men and women of faith died without receiving the promise, the result of faith, (see 10:39) the preservation of soul, salvation - the new creation. Heb 11 39 And having obtained witness through the faith, these all did not obtain the promise, 40 God having foreseen something better concerning us, that they should not be perfected apart from us. Love in Christ, Mark PS - We're closing for the day, so I'm off the net til Monday. Good discussion, John! You really challenge me on these things! I am looking forward to continuing, if you don't burn out over the next couple of days. :-) |
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3 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | DocTrinsograce | 172526 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, You wrote, "...you believe Abraham was a born again regenerate. Where does the Bible tell us that?" Romans 4 is detailed discussion of the question, "How was Abraham saved?" In Him, Doc |
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4 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172603 | ||
Hi Doc, Are you then saying that Romans 4 tells us that Abraham was born again? Would you please point me to the verse that tells us that? Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | DocTrinsograce | 172661 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, It is all through the chapter. However, the first instance we know this is from: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Romans 4:3) God does not impute righteousness to lost people. As Christ stated before His atonement, God is not the God of the dead, but the living. In Him, Doc |
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6 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172665 | ||
Hi Doc, I know that Abraham is not among the lost. I know that God reckoned righteousness to Abraham. But isn't this making a statement of Abraham's "Legal Status", rather than making a statement about changing Abraham's nature? As I read Romans 4, it is all about imputation of righteousness, the forgiveness of iniquities and the covering of sins, not imputing his sins against him, and so on. None of these things speak of rebirth, or of the creation of a new creature. There is two places I am aware of in the Old Testament where it speaks of anything like creating a new creature, and even so, these are not necessarily rock-solid to what you are asserting. One is 1 Sam 10:9, speaking of Saul, "And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day." But it is also said of Saul, upon the annointing of David as king, in 1 Samuel 16:14, "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him." If Saul had been born again, how is it that the Holy Spirit would have left him? The other place is from David, as he writes in Psalm 51:10, "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." This is a request David makes of God, not a statement of accomplishment, and furthermore, he follows it immediately with "and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me," and so it seems clear that David is not saying, "I want to be born again and filled and sealed with Your Spirit." We do have Ezekiel 11:19-20, "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God." This seems to be clearly speaking of spiritual birth, and is also clearly prophetic, not something that God has already been doing, but something that He will do in the future. ? Love in Christ, Mark |
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7 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | DocTrinsograce | 172666 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, There are clear economies of God. The Scripture speaks of them as dispensations KJV (Ephesians 1:10; 3:2; Colossians 1:25). That is, under each covenant, there are specific ways that God deals with men (cf Hebrews 9:9). For example, God no longer interacts with men as He did with Adam before the fall. Redemptive history is all about God's actions from creation to glory in which He redeems His own to the point of a final restoration -- and more -- of the relationship with God enjoyed by our First Parents in the Garden. On a macro scale redemptive history is divided into two parts. The prophets of the Old Testament spoke of a coming day in which God would perform a decisive work for salvation and for judgment (Jeremiah 23:5-6). They spoke with great excitement of the coming of Messiah (Isaiah 42:6). Then the New Testament opens with the message that the Kingdom of God is at hand. The ultimate inauguration of these events -- i.e., in the fulness of time according to God's eternal purpose (Galatians 4:4) -- was with the Resurrection of Christ, culminating in His Ascension (Ephesians 1:20) and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on all believers (Acts 2:18). In the Old Testament the Spirit of God is said to dwell UPON people (cf 1 Samuel 10:10; Isaiah 61:1). God would send His Spirit upon leaders and those who would prophesy to His people (cf Judges 3:10; Numbers 11:29). The Spirit of God could and did come upon people who were not saved (Numbers 24:2). (We know they were not saved because of the overall bent of their lives. Although the saved are not sinless, they manifest Godliness in a general trend in their lives.) Now, in the Kingdom of God, the Spirit of God has come to live with His people (2 Corinthians 6:16). Every saved person has the Holy Spirit "indwelling" them -- something that the Old Testament saints could not have imagined, but would have desired to comprehend (1 Peter 1:12). The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a seal upon the lives of the saved (Ephesians 4:30). This is a benefit granted by and sent by the Father (John 14:26) and the Lord Jesus Christ (John 15:26) to His own. Mark, we are creatures of time. We think, operate, and live within time and always will. When we say, "I will go to the store," we look to a future event. We cannot say "I will go to the store" with the same kind of authority as we say "I have gone to the store." Our very word can be thwarted by all sorts of things. That doesn't happen with God. When He says "I will do thus and so" it is as certain as when He says "I have done thus and so." Indeed, it is fully accomplished. Consequently, the Bible can speak of the "Lamb slain from the foundations of the world" (Revelation 13:8). Christ's work was finished at a moment of time (John 19:30) in the context of time. But God's decrees are rooted in eternity past. From His perspective His eternal purpose has been completed. Some of your confusion is rooted in the subjective versus objective aspects of salvation. I've done a poor job of explaining, I suspect. Instead of a hasty reply like this I should be working on homework. It is a difficult thing to explain in a few short posts what has taken me a great deal of study and time to understand. Perhaps its just my panglossian nature that causes me to keep trying. :-) In Him, Doc |
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8 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | CDBJ | 172671 | ||
Hi Doc; I kind of liked your “panglossian nature” but I always thought of it as your polyglot personality processes that presumptuously tried to persuade us! 2 Cor. 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Have fun, CDBJ |
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9 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | DocTrinsograce | 172673 | ||
Poppycock! Preposterous! My perfectly petulant pal! (After all these P posts I'm going to have to clean my screen!) |
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