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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172484 | ||
Hi Doc, We are agreed on the meaning of regeneration, as refering to that moment when God creates a new being that did not exist before, created according to righteousness and true holiness. (assuming you agree with my expanded definition!) But I must also agree with what Tim wrote, that none of the Scripture references you offered show this "order of salvation". My problem with it is that this order would of necessity mean that God regenerates unrepentant sinners. That thought seems to me to be in conflict with a number of Scriptures. Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, In this passage, "receiving" Jesus, (said verb being in the active voice - done by those who are numbered in the "all" - "to all who...") comes before being given the right to become children of God (the right to be "regenerated"). The ones who are given the right to become children of God are those who received Him, not, for instance, those who "were made children of God". This verse does not say "those who were made children of God were given the right to become children of God." So I have a fundamental conflict with this. Another Scripture that comes to mind is: 2 Cor 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. Paul does not in this passage say "... a repentance that SHOWS salvation..." Here, repentance leads to salvation. Is there any other way of thinking of second-birth, regeneration, as anything other than salvation itself? So if regeneration is that moment in time when the new creature is created, how can that precede repentance? To take a quote from Packer: "Regeneration is the spiritual change wrought in the heart of man by the Holy Spirit in which his/her inherently sinful nature is changed so that he/she can respond to God in Faith," He places regeneration before belief. I cannot reconcile that statement to the words of Scripture, such as Act 16:30-31 "Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." Again, this does not say, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you HAVE BEEN saved", it says "And you will be saved" Unless Packer is using the word "regeneration" in another way, not refering to the moment of creation of the new creature, this does not reconcile with Scripture. If Packer is using this as some would say, (if my understanding of these things is correct) Previent Grace, then I could accept this. And again it is written, Act 3:19, "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out," not "repent, therfore, and turn again, BECAUSE your sins HAVE BEEN blotted out." How do you reconcile your belief with these verses? Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | Morant61 | 172491 | ||
Greetings Mark! Excellent points my friend! It is worthwhile to remind each of us to define our terms based upon Scripture alone, not what someone else has said. Many definitions offered today are simply not Scriptural. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172493 | ||
Hi Tim, That's my issue with an argument that is primarily based on the statements of a man, rather than by expositional presentation of Scripture. I would much rather see where the Bible says it, and how the meaning is inescapable based on text itself. Then I can know I am firmly founded! :-) Thank you for your steady commitment to that, and your many meaningful contributions to this forum, and to my personal understanding of the Scripture. Love in Christ, Mark |
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