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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172606 | ||
Hi John, So then you dispute Robertson's analysis of these verses, which I referenced in my previous post? Rev 13:8 - Hath not been written (ou gegraptai). Perfect passive indicative of grapho, permanent state, stands written. "Not stands written the name of him..." Rev. 17:8 is the same construction. Again, I would be interested to know what other Greek scholars have to say about this, but when I consider this together with the other verses that talk about names being blotted out, well, I consider something else to be more obvious than your conclusion. Thank you for following this through with me, it is always valuable for me to understand the exact point and nature of my doctrinal disagreements with other, so I can be certain I am grounding myself wholey in the text. Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | hobbs | 172647 | ||
Hi Mark, should not written be translated. Having no education greek, I would be a fool to question a great greek scholar :-) Is it your contention that "not written in the book of life" is wrongly translated? If so, the majority of our translators are wrong as well. It would be helpful if you would show how Robertson would amend the 2 verses in question. John |
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3 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172652 | ||
Hi John, Having just a tiny bit of Greek education, I can sometimes just barely understand what a great Greek scholar is teaching us! :-) I don't know that I would go so far as to say that this passage is wrongly translated, but if Robertson is correct, it would add a certain depth to the understanding of the passage. I have only seen this in Roberston's notes, and not in any other's. There is one commentator, whose name escapes me at the moment, who quotes Robertson on this, then adds as their own note, "(remains written)". As I understand the Perfect Tense, this would be in keeping with it's usage. Other than these, I have not found any other Scripture commentary that addresses this point one way or the other. I would not presume to say how Robertson would ammend the passage, or even whether he would. He has said that the grammer in both passages is the same, and so how we understand one is to be the same in the other. Quoted for reference: Rev 13:8 And all those dwelling in the earth will worship it, those of whom the names had not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb having been slain from the foundation of the world. (LITV) The particular phrase in question is: wn ou gegraptai to onoma whose not xxxxxxx the name In this phrase, either "been written" or "stands written" would work, and make sense. "Been written" would be expressing a past tense, while "stands written", or "remains written" would express a perfect tense. I could not tell you why Bible translators have consistently translated this passage as they have. The one that I currently have access to on my work computer that is different is the Bible in Basic English: "And all who are on the earth will give him worship, everyone whose name has not been from the first in the book of life of the Lamb who was put to death." My understanding of this verse, given my current understanding of the grammer used, is that John is telling us that all will worship the beast, whose name does not remain written in the Lamb's book of life. This would be in harmony with all those other passages, esp. Ex. 32, which speak of names being blotted from the book. The ones who worship the beast are those whose sins are counted against them, and are not justified. Their sins being counted against them, they are blotted from God's book, and their names do not remain in the book. So this is my understand, based on these things. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | Searcher56 | 172653 | ||
God's day to you, Mark ... "I could not tell you why Bible translators have consistently translated this passage as they have" ... is a mystery to me, too. Not just verse, but others like Romans 12:1. When abad (Hebrew) or latreuo (Greek) are in the same verse as shachah (Hebrew) or proskuneo (Greek), it is always translated serve with the latter being translated worship. Then when abad (Hebrew) or latreuo (Greek) are alone, it is sometimes translated worship. To me that makes no sense. Searcher PS Having a little knowledge of Aramaic, Greek or Hebrew is dangerous. I am grateful for Tim and others who can help. |
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