Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172403 | ||
Hi Doc, There's a very intruiging sentence you wrote: "God be merciful, on me a sinner!" So simply put, but entailing a wonderful special revelation. How is this man's request for mercy a special revelation? Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | DocTrinsograce | 172420 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, Here is what I meant: Revelation, of course, is how God has revealed Himself to mankind. In theology we distinguish between general revelation and special revelation. General revelation is the kind that is available to every human being that has ever lived. Paul wrote, "For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [all humanity] are without excuse." (Romans 1:20 ESV) The Scriptures are the special revelation of God (Hebrews 1:1-2; 2 Peter 1:18-19, 20-21; 2 Timothy 4:3-4, etc.). Although we are all accountable due to general revelation, only special revelation contains "the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience." (This is the doctrine of the necessity of Scripture. Note that the Scripture must be illumined by the Holy Spirit for its salvific purposes to be effectual.) "God has specially revealed Himself to man and preserved that propositional revelation in his written word. Just as our fallen nature demands special revelation, so also our fallen nature demands the work of the Holy Spirit if that propositional revelation is to be understood. The hearer must be regenerated and illumined. This yields great hope and encouragement to all who are called to the ministration of the word of God. Not only do we possess, by the gracious providence of God, an objective and inerrant word, but we also have the promised attendance of the person of the Holy Spirit to enliven dead hearts and open blinded eyes. By the power of the Spirit in the ministry of the word we see lives transformed. We see fallen men who were aliens from God gathered into the kingdom of Christ. In this ministry of the Spirit in the word we witness God glorified in the efficacy of His eternal plan. We are assured that whatsoever He purposed to do would of certainty be done. In this, we are privileged to take part!" --Robert Burridge Now, let's look at the passage you cited: "But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!'" (Luke 18:13 ESV) The publican's prayer was extremely simple, but think about the presuppositions implicit within it. He would have had to understand that God was to be approached through His temple. That God was holy and righteous. That God was his sovereign judge. That God had a holy and righteous law in which mirror his own imperfections had been clearly manifest. That he was dependent on the mercy of God for redemption. That God was infinitely valuable and that he himself was infinitely needy. (I'm sure I've only scratched the surface.) How did the publican know these things? Simply put, he could not have known them without special revelation. Hence my comment: The publican's prayer was elegantly simple and to the point. But it was built upon the eternal truths of God's special revelation. I believe it was Kay Arthur who said, "God's provision always precedes our need." God had answered the prayer of the publican even before he prayed! Thank you for asking and for the opportunity to explain. In Him, Doc |
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3 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172422 | ||
Hi Doc, So the special revelation was that which was revealed in the words of Scripture? Or are you refering specifically to the words quoted from Mr. Burridge, "so also our fallen nature demands the work of the Holy Spirit if that propositional revelation is to be understood. The hearer must be regenerated and illumined." So that the special revelation was that which the Holy Spirit brought to the tax collector by regeneration, so that he could actually understand what the Scriptures said? I guess I think of regeneration differently than you do. I think of regeneration as what happens when we are born again. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | DocTrinsograce | 172427 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, Special revelation is the Word of God. It is only really understood by the regenerate (1 Corinthians 2:14) and by the illumination of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; Hebrews 10:32; Ephesians 5:14; Acts 26:23, etc.). Regeneration is, indeed, the "new birth!" That's exactly what the word means. :-) With regard to the publican, his regeneration would have had to have already occurred for him to have made his appeal to God. His faith and repentance were expressed in Luke 18:12 and we are told his justification had taken place by the time he left the temple (Luke 18:13). I define and discuss regeneration in orthodox theology in my posts on the ordo salutis starting with post #151193. But I speak specifically about regeneration in post #151466. Here's some great quotes, though: "Regeneration is the spiritual change wrought in the heart of man by the Holy Spirit in which his/her inherently sinful nature is changed so that he/she can respond to God in Faith, and live in accordance with His Will (Matt. 19:28; John 3:3,5,7; Titus 3:5). It is an inner re-creating of fallen human nature by the gracious sovereign action of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5-8). This change is ascribed to the Holy Spirit. It originates not with man but with God (John 1:12, 13; 1 John 2:29; 5:1, 4). It extends to the whole nature of man, altering his governing disposition, illuminating his mind, freeing his will, and renewing his nature." --J. I. Packer "When a man is converted to God, it is done in a moment. Regeneration is an instantaneous work. Conversion to God, the fruit of regeneration, occupies all our life, but regeneration itself is effected in an instant. A man hates God -- the Holy Spirit makes him love God. A man is opposed to Christ, he hates his gospel, does not understand it and will not receive it -- the Holy Spirit comes, puts light into his darkened understanding, takes the chain from his bondaged will, gives liberty to his conscience, gives life to his dead soul, so that the voice of conscience is heard, and the man becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus.And all this is done, mark you, by the instantaneous supernatural influence of God the Holy Spirit working as he wills among the sons of men." --Charles H. Spurgeon It would presumptuous of me to postulate how our views of regeneration might differ. You've been known to surprise me. :-) In Him, Doc |
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5 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | Morant61 | 172438 | ||
Greetings Doc! It is interesting to note that of the scriptures Dr. Packer cites in the quote you provided that only two of them even mention regeneration. Mt. 19:28 uses the word, but it is not used in the context of individual salvation. None of the John 3 verses use the word, but he uses these verses to define regeneration. Titus 3:5 does use the word, but it does not specify the timing. So, my question would be, 'What Scripture tells us when regeneration takes place?' Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | DocTrinsograce | 172446 | ||
Dear Tim, You asked, "What Scripture tells us when regeneration takes place?" You don't believe that there is a moment of regeneration? In Him, Doc |
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7 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | Morant61 | 172458 | ||
Greetings Doc! Yes, I believe in a moment of regeneration. I was just curious as to which Scripture specifies when this moment is in relationship to the other aspects of salvation. For instance, you had said in an earlier post that the publican would have already been regenerated before he made his appeal to the Lord. Which Scripture says this? Dr. Packer makes many claims about regeneration. Which Scripture actually say any of those things? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | hobbs | 172479 | ||
Dear Tim, to my knowledge, there is not a particular verse that states directly that regeneraation occurs prior to or subseuent to belief. However, their is a body of text upon which we may deduce that regeneration is the Spirit's ministry which He performs according to the will of the Father. Regeneration by J.I. Packer Regeneration is the spiritual change wrought in the heart of man by the Holy Spirit in which his/her inherently sinful nature is changed so that he/she can respond to God in Faith, and live in accordance with His Will (Matt. 19:28; John 3:3,5,7; Titus 3:5). It is an inner re-creating of fallen human nature by the gracious sovereign action of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5-8). This change is ascribed to the Holy Spirit. It originates not with man but with God (John 1:12, 13; 1 John 2:29; 5:1, 4). It extends to the whole nature of man, altering his governing disposition, illuminating his mind, freeing his will, and renewing his nature. What had always puzzled me is how it is that one person becomes cognizant of his fallen nature but another (such as the Pharisee) remains in the dark. Scripture teaches us that prior to regeneration, all men are dead in trespasses ans sin (Eph 2:1); that they are carnal creatures Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Therefore, an outside agency (by necessity) must be involved! Yet the majority of evangelicals in America believe that the sinner is not "so" dead that he cannot save himself through an act of his own will cooperating with God's will. That God does His work, but until the sinner approves the proposition by believing, God's plan for him/her is suspended. The alternative to self-help salvation is the Soverign election and calling of God. But this is anathema to many professing christians. To them it seems unfair. The reason I can be so bold to say what I have said is because I have been told by them why they reject the alternative. I also know it from personal experience, having had the same feelings myself at one time. John |
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9 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | lionheart | 172482 | ||
John, Excellent piece of material. Where can I acess this particular artical? In Christ, lionheart |
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10 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | mark d seyler | 172492 | ||
Hi Lionheart, You can read the entire article at: http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/packer_regen.html There are a number of other "reformed theology" essays, links, and such, but I caution you to carefully consider and compare with Scripture things you may find there. This includes not only the reformed theology of regeneration before repentance, but also Covenant Theology, which in general, sets aside Israel (Quoted from a page linked to Monergism.com: "National Israel as such does not retain its covenant identity in the new, eschatological age of the Spirit." http://www.twoagepress.org/Karlberg.pdf). This is to say that the promises made to Israel in the OT have been spiritualized to be fulfilled in the Church. This brings in the allegorical interpretations of prophecy. Covenant Theology has a profound effect on hermeneutics, often reguiring Old Testament passages to be viewed as allegorical, or as "types", even where the text does not specifically say that they are types. I am not saying that everyone who claims to believe in the "reformed" manner will hold to all of these things, but many do, and as you read this material you will tend to find these types of things. Following is a statement from an artical on Monergism.com titled "The Hermaneutics of Eschatology III" - link: http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article.asp?id(equals)393 replace (equals) with the equals symbol - this will give you good practice for understanding their theology ;-) "1. The fulfillment of Israel’s prophetic hope as found in the OT documents is found in the person and work of Jesus Christ and the believing remnant, i.e., the Church, which he established at his first coming. The point is that Jesus Christ and his Church are the focal and terminating point of all prophecy." So every promise not yet fulfilled to Israel is now considered transfered to the Church, the foundation of "replacement theology". But this requires that you say of many passages in the Bible, "it says that, but it doesn't mean that." As a non-dispensational theology, this theology is "amillennial", or "post-millennial" and rejects the leteral, post-apocalyptic 1000 year reign of Jesus as being other than a symbol, no matter that the Bible states it as a factual future event. The following is quoted from "The Amillennial View of the Kingdom of God" by Dr. Sam Storms, presented on Monergism.com: "1. Contrary to what the name (Amillennialism) implies, AMs do believe in a millennium. The millennium, however, is now: the present age of the church between the first and second comings of Christ in its entirety is the millennium." So, according to this, we are IN the millennium! Praise the Lord for that! This is just a very small sampling. I just wanted you to be alerted to what you may find as you explore that website. Love in Christ, Mark |
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11 | Are we presenting the gospel scripturaly | John 1:12 | lionheart | 172507 | ||
Mark, Thanx my brother. I think you and a few others here on the forum have a good grasp of where my head and heart are. I will ever be grateful to God for you guys! I try to stay as close to scripture as I can when I'm studying things out, I'm not real big on outside sources,but there are some that are biblically solid and oft times do a better job at laying things out than I can. That's why I can be so fanatical at times regarding 2 Timothy 2:15. I'll stand or fall with this one. I believe when a man or woman has deep convictions regarding this area of thier walk with God it makes it much simpler to seperate that which is truth and that which is deception. In Christ, lionheart |
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