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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | DocTrinsograce | 129173 | ||
What scriptural evidence is there that Ananias and Sapphira were saved? Even if they were, why would this invalidate eternal security? God can take our lives at any time He chooses (Matthew 10:28) and we are told that a saint's death is a precious thing to the Lord (Psalm 116:15). You'll have to find a better example than Acts 5! (Actually, I'm wondering why you haven't mentioned the two passages that Eternal Security proponents have the most difficulty with. All these other ones are easy!) You could also make a stronger argument by dealing with the verses that have already been presented in support of Eternal Security. |
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2 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Country Girl | 129189 | ||
I'm not sure how you could have possibly misunderstood my statement but I'm of the opinion like most christians that Ananias and Sapphira died in their sins. Acts 5 seems pretty clear on that point. I'll have to check later on this thread. I simply must leave you all now and do some homework. Blessings on you all. Country Girl |
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3 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Hank | 129229 | ||
There are many verses of Scripture ending with "and he died" and go no further, saying neither that the deceased went to heaven or that he went to hell. Acts 5 is not much different in this respect. Ananias and Sapphira both dropped dead. That much we know. Scripture doesn't say what happened to them after that, whether they went to heaven or to hell. Were they ever saved to begin with? Perhaps not. There are exegetes who draw the inference that they were hypocrites, e.g., John MacArthur, who calls both of them hypocrites who faked their spirituality to impress others. But this is interpretation; we really don't know for sure. If they were in fact unregenerate pretenders, the question of the orthodoxy of the doctrine of the eternal security of the believer becomes academic. If they were regenerate believers, the question is equally academic, because Scripture does not say whether they went to heaven or hell. Thus, Acts 5:1-11 is not a "proof text" for "losing" salvation or for "keeping" it. To use Acts 5:1-11 to prove or disprove OSAS is to miss the point of the passage. --Hank | ||||||
4 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Country Girl | 129250 | ||
I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. It proves the point against OSAS at least as much as all of the verses that have been cited in its support. As I mentioned, there's several million christians who hold to this interpretation just as I do. As you know, there's going to be quite a bit of controversy about this subject as shown throughout the Forum. Nevertheless, I pray God's blessings on you and your continued study. Country Girl |
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5 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Morant61 | 129258 | ||
Greetings Country Girl! I am not a Calvinist, but I concur with Hank about Acts 5. To be used as a proof text against OSAS, Acts 5 would have to specifically state the final destination of these two individuals. They died, but nothing in the passage specifically states whether or not they went to Heaven or Hell. One would have to assume many things that simply are not stated to use this passage to disprove OSAS. The other verses you cited in your other post are much better suited for that purpose than Acts 5. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Country Girl | 129311 | ||
So I'm assuming you and Hank are preparing your responses to my other post with scriptures from 1 Timothy and 2 Peter, correct? I await your responses. Thanks. But back to Ananias and Sapphira. I still don't see how anyone could draw any other conclusion about these two. They lied to the Apostles, and to their Lord and didn't repent of these sins before their obvious and very deliberate deaths at the very behest of the Holy Spirit. At the very least, we should draw a conclusion of extreme caution when it comes to sinning and going on with our lives with no intent of repenting. This is exactly what Paul was talking about in the following: Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people." 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. However, I'm still interested in your response. Blessings to you. Country Girl |
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7 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Morant61 | 129360 | ||
Greetings Country Girl! I would agree with the use of your other two Scriptures. The main difference between my view and my understanding of your view is that I don't view my salvation as being dependent upon anything I do. I believe that salvation can be rejected, but not 'lost'. So, in 1 Tim, 2 Peter, and Heb. 10, I don't see someone who 'lost' his salvation, but someone who willingly rejected it. The difference is that I don't have to go through life 'hoping' I will be saved. I am saved! The only way that would ever change is if I willfully rejected Christ which I would never do. As far as Acts 5 goes, I am not a big believer in drawing assumptions. I believe that is why so many doctrines miss the mark. We go beyond what the text of Scripture actually says and fill in the blanks with what we think it ought to say. :-) 1 Timothy, 2 Peter, and Heb. 10 are good verses to support your view, but Acts 5 isn't. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Country Girl | 129361 | ||
I think I can agree with the bottom line of your assessment of the OSAS, or rather than take a chance on misinterpreting let me summarize. I also believe very strongly that ALL christians can reach the point of spiritual maturity that we can KNOW for an absolute fact that we are saved and that we ARE going to Heaven as reflected in 1 John 5:10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. If we've obeyed God's commands to the best of our ability, we can meet God at Judgment Day with full confidence that our Lord Jesus, our Advocate will be there to cover us with his Pure Blood. That and God's Grace is all that we'll need to go to Heaven forever and ever. Blessings to you, dear friend. Country Girl |
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9 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Morant61 | 129362 | ||
Greetings Country Girl! I like your Scripture reference, but disagree with your application of it! :-) 1 John 5:11 points out that eternal life is a gift. Verse 12 only attaches one condition to this life - whether or not on has the Son. Verse 13 calls us to trust in the Son, not in our best ability to obey God. This is where we differ on our view of salvation. My salvation is not dependent upon anything that I can do. It is entirely based upon faith in what Christ has already done. This is where I differ with many of the Arminian persuasion. The old joke is the the flower of the Calvinist is the Tulip, but the flower of the Arminian is the daisy (He loves me, He loves me not...!) Scripture doesn't make the case that we are saved until we disobey, then we are lost. If I told a lie, and dropped dead before I could confess my sin - I would still be a Christian. My salvation is not based upon my works or lack of them. So, I would say that we don't have to reach a point of maturity to know we are saved. We can know right now, if we simply believe God's promises. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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10 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Country Girl | 129378 | ||
I can only encourage you to keep studying dear friend. As I mentioned before when some of God's Word gives us reason to reconcile contrasting verses such as these, it seems prudent to take the more conservative view or the safer position so as to be certain like John talks about. I'm thinking we're all in agreement that we'll be judged by all the Words we see in the NT as Jesus said. Blessings to you. Country Girl |
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