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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Praying for the 'World'. | Matt 5:44 | DocTrinsograce | 163843 | ||
Dear Brother Tim, We can discuss the other verses in due course. Let's stay with the one thought in Peter's epistles to avoid drifting into some other context. So, by your rendering, God's patience is toward believers, but His wish is toward everyone including the unrighteous. The believers, making their calling and election sure (1:10), are rescued by the Lord from trials (2:9a), to whom He shows His patience. But His wish is that the unrighteous -- kept by God "under punishment until the day of judgment" (2:9b) -- would not perish. Doesn't that make God to suffer a bit of ambivalence? This verse is probably the most popular one used to argue against election. Given your perspective, it is easy to understand why you'd want to read it in that way. Let's zoom out a bit, though, and see if we might arrive at a bit more of a commonsensical rendering. One that doesn't compromise the true nature of God, or force Peter into some kind of contradiction. First, let me point out that the verse -- in context -- is not really soteriological. Read from the first verse in the chapter. Peter is talking about why Christ has delayed His return. Christ is coming, he declares, and will come. His coming will be like a thief in the night (v 10). Second, as I've tried to point out, is the consideration of the audience. Peter speaks of the mockers as "they," but everywhere else he speaks of his audience as "you," "us," or "beloved." Now that's important because the assumption is made that the "you," "any," and "all" refer to everyone on planet earth! But as Brother Tim asks, "Doesn't 'all' mean 'all?'" I'd answer, "Well, yes, it usually does, but not always." It must be determined by the context in which the word appears. When I was a schoolboy the teacher, at the beginning of class, would ask, "Are we all here?" He wasn't asking if every person on the planet were present in the room. :-) Instead, he was asking if all the students enrolled in the class were present. Context! Similarly, Luke 2:1 speaks of Caesar's decree to tax "all the world." He wasn't going to tax every person on the planet. Instead, he was going to tax every person under the authority of Rome. Paul speaks of the gospel having (past tense) reached "all the world." He wasn't saying that the gospel was preached to every person on the planet. Instead, he meant everyone within the contiguously Roman occupied lands. Context! So, the question is this: Does the "all" in 2 Peter 3:9 refer to all men without distinction or everyone in a specific group. To answer, let's look at the context to see if Peter is writing to all mankind or to a specific group. Peter identifies his audience in 2 Peter 1:1b, "to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours." Furthermore, he says that this is his "second letter" (2 Peter 3:1) to these people. Indeed, we have both of his letters! Consequently, we can even be more clear about who his recipients because the first epistle starts out, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who are elect..." (1 Peter 1:1a). "This is now the second letter that I am writing to YOU, BELOVED. In both of them I am stirring up YOUR sincere mind by way of reminder, that YOU should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through YOUR apostles, knowing this first of all, that SCOFFERS will come in the last days with scoffing... But do not overlook this one fact, BELOVED, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward YOU, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2 Peter 3:1-9, my emphasis) Besides, if the words "all" and "any" were referring to all humanity in history, then the verse would prove far more than you wish, Brother Tim: it would prove universalism. If God is never willing that any should perish, then none would perish! Consequently, "any" can only mean the group being addressed. The second coming of Christ has been delayed so that all of the elect might be saved. Indeed, God is not willing that any of the elect shall perish! Now, although I've pointed out that the main thrust of this chapter is not soteriological, I'd like to draw our attention to v 15, where Peter explains that as Paul has taught, the Lord's patience means salvation! Consequently, these passages can either be about universalism or about election. No third choice has any merit. Rather than denying election, when understood in its proper Scriptural context, this verse, instead, strongly affirms it! Dear other readers, I take the time to teach in these posts as I do because I do not wish for ANY to miss the proper interpretation of Scripture in its historico-grammatical context, but that ALL should avoid the error of eisegesis. In Him, Doc |
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2 | Praying for the 'World'. | Matt 5:44 | Morant61 | 163847 | ||
Greetings Doc! There is so much here, but I will try to respond in a manner that will do it justice. 1) The issue of 'you' (pl): This is a rather easy issue to deal with my friend. If I were to write to you that 'God loves you', would I necessarily mean that God loves no one else but you? Of course not! Neither does Peter limit his comments to just his readers. Were these the only believers - ever - with whom God was patient? But, even in the 'you' could be forced to refer only to those readers of Peter, it would in no way restrict the 'any' and 'everyone' to just the 'you'. God is patient with 'you' because He doesn't wish anyone to perish. 2) The charge of universalism: This verse could only be understood as a reference to universalism under the Calvinistic understanding of God's will and sovereignty. Calvin did not believe that God could will something that would not happen, yet there are plenty of examples of just this percise thing. Remember when Christ longed to gather the people of Jerusalem under His wings, but they would not. This verse makes perfect sense in my understanding of it (without resorting to changing the plain meaning of the words). God doesn't want anyone to perish. He died for the sins of the world, reconciling the world to Himself. He now offers salvation to all. If they will be reconciled, they will not perish. 3) Qualified 'alls': You are exactly right about your example of 'Are we all here'. There are times when 'all' or 'every' is limited by some other word. Some verses speak of all His disciples. This does not refer to every person. But, there is no limiting words in this verse, so the plain sense would be 'all' and 'everyone'. :-) If God had meant to limit it, He could have said 'all of you', instead of 'all'. Finally, speaking of eisgesis, where does the word 'elect' appear in this passage? :-( Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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