Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | Country Girl | 126082 | ||
I can only assume you're directing this question to me. Since I believe so strongly in our complete and total freedom as mentioned in my previous post, I really DO NOT believe that God or any One of the Godhead really seeks out any particular person. I do believe, however, that They are most willing and axious to be invited into our lives and They will assist us in living our christian lives if we'll pray that They do. In my opinion, God see us and our world in a very simple way; it's pretty much black and white for Him. Either we believe in Him or we don't. Either we believe in the Bible or we don't. Let's take this logic to its ultimate conclusion: If a person accepts the idea that God chooses those whom He determines can be or qualify to become a christian (or any variation thereof), then what's left for us to do but simply go to Heaven? Why the need for the rest of the Bible? If that was God's plan to select certain ones to come to Him in Heaven, then why so much emphasis from the Apostles on living a Godly life? God's already chosen and made up His mind. No, I'm afraid I see a lot more into our portion of this relationship. We must be found faithful, at least at the end of our lives, Rev 2:10. And it's not a good idea to "tempt fate" and try to live an ungodly life only to make it up to God in our last few months of life. Godliness or Christianity must become our lifestyle our attitude about life, our total submission of everything we are and everything we hope to be. I know and realize this begins to sounds like "works so we can earn our way to Heaven." But don't you see, although we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling, we must also recongnize our EXTREME need for the Grace and Mercy of God. That's paramount in this relationship. We can't take God's Love or His Grace and Mercy for granted. God paid too much with His own Son's blood to just give it away. But again it's just my opinion. What do you think? Blessings to you. Country Girl |
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2 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | kalos | 126083 | ||
"You did not choose Me" "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you." (NASB John 15:16 ) "He chose us in Christ" Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love. (AMPLIFIED Ephesians 1:4 ) But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. (NASB 2 Thessalonians 2:13 b) * * * * * * * * * * * * 1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 'Election, Summary: In both Testaments the Hebrew and Greek words are rendered "elect," "election," "choose," "chosen." In all cases they mean, simply, "chosen," or "to choose"; and are used of both human and divine choices. '(1) In the latter use [divine choices] election is: (a) corporate, as of the nation of Israel, or the church Isaiah 45:4 and (b) individual 1 Peter 1:2. '(2) Election is according to the foreknowledge of God 1 Peter 1:2 and wholly of grace, apart from human merit ; Romans 9:11 ; 11:5,6. '(3) Election proceeds from the divine volition John 15:16. 'Election is, therefore: '(1) The sovereign act of God in grace whereby certain are chosen from among mankind for Himself. John 15:19 . '(2) The sovereign act of God whereby certain elect persons are chosen for distinctive service for Him. Luke 6:13 ; Acts 9:15; 1 Corinthians 1:27,28.' Bibliography Information Scofield, C.I. "Scofield Reference Notes on 1 Peter 1". "Scofield Reference Notes (1917 Edition)". http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/ScofieldReferenceNotes/ |
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3 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | Country Girl | 126087 | ||
I've seen these scriptures before as I've studied this subject quite a bit. I noticed you didn't really address the points in my post. I was hoping to get your specific response to those points. Meanwhile, you may be interested in my response to your points and scriptures here. I've been taught the only way one can reconcile these scriptures and the other scriptures/examples I could offer is as follows. Our parents in one way or another have all pre-destined that we be successful in this life, stay out of prison and maybe grow up to be President of the USA or maybe something close to that. However, try as we might, most of us disappoint our parents and score somewhere quite a bit less than our own lofty goals and most especially those of parents. But that doesn't stop our parents who keep on hoping and praying that we'll succeed somehow. To this day, my parents keep after me, urging and prodding me to finish my degree. Now my spouse gets in on the act and urges me also. How can I lose? Well, I must admit I really should finish and probably will one of these days. So you see, our God and Father in Heaven has pre-destined a wonderful place for us to retire. He really hopes and wants all mankind to come Home to Him on Judgment Day. He has made definite plans to accommodate EVERYONE who will obey Him and comply with His Son's Last Will and Testament. It's really not all that different from our own parents here on earth. The big pivotal point in this discussion is on us. Which one will we choose? A life committed to Him on earth and then forever with Him? Or something less and thus waste our lives both here on earth and forever in Hell? My big question to you is...How do you reconcile all the scriptures you quoted in your post with all the rest of the Bible which clearly gives mankind a choice between these two lifestyles? Blessings to you. Country Girl |
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4 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | kalos | 126095 | ||
Divine Sovereignty, Human Responsibility [Country Girl: Yes, I am interested in your response. Nothing in this Note is intended to hurt or criticize you. I am merely attempting to respond to the points you raised in your two previous Notes. I do so much appreciate your interest and replies. Grace and shalom to you, kalos] You write: "I really DO NOT believe that God or any One of the Godhead really seeks out any particular person." One would have to ignore a lot of Scripture before one could NOT believe that God really seeks out any particular person. Using a concordance, you may want to read the verses in the Bible that contain some form of the words "choose" or "elect". God may be "eager", but He is not "anxious" about anything -- not in the sense in which the word is used in the English Bible. 'anxious '1 : characterized by extreme uneasiness of mind or brooding fear about some contingency : WORRIED '2 : characterized by, resulting from, or causing anxiety : WORRYING' (www.m-w.com) God is NOT worried. That which he predestines shall come to pass. You ask: "If that was God's plan to select certain ones to come to Him in Heaven, then why so much emphasis from the Apostles on living a Godly life?" Good question. Actually God chose us "that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him" (Ephesians 1:4). God has chosen us "from the beginning for salvation through sanctification" (2 Thessalonians 2:13). God has not chosen us to be robots. Thus, the need for the rest of the Bible. Thus, the need for so much emphasis from the Apostles on living a Godly life. The Bible emphasizes godly living BECAUSE that is what God chose us FOR. A very important point to consider is that the Bible teaches both the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. Both are true. Neither cancels out the other. How can divine sovereignty and human responsibility both be true? I don't know. I just know that, according to the Bible, they are. There are many paradoxes in the Bible. If one were to say that a belief in the sovereignty of God (His choosing us) would somehow give us a license to sin and live a careless life, then one would be contradicting the clear teaching of Scripture. For the Bible teaches both God's sovereignty in choosing us AND man's responsibility to live a life of holiness and obedience. "Predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29-30 (ESV) For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. [30] And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Predestine - "to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand" (www.m-w.com). Predestinate - destined or determined beforehand. I cannot agree with the way you use/define "pre-destined". Specifically, our parents do not predestine our future in the same sense in which God does. Predestine means "to decree, determine, settle beforehand." When God decrees, when God determines, when God settles beforehand, the thing that he decrees SHALL be done. This, after all, is the definition of the word predestined. You see, it really IS all that different from our own parents here on earth. You ask: "How do you reconcile all the scriptures you quoted in your post with all the rest of the Bible which clearly gives mankind a choice between these two lifestyles?" As I said earlier, both divine sovereignty and human responsibility are true. How? I don't know. I just know that they are, according to the Bible. No offense intended here, but I don't know that I need to reconcile the Scriptures. Scripture speaks for itself. The verses I quoted speak for themselves. The Bible does not contradict itself. Other verses in the Bible do not cancel out the verses I've quoted. "One of the basic principles of biblical interpretation is the analogia scriptura, the analogy of Scripture. In other words, we must compare Scripture with Scripture in order to understand its full and proper sense. And since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, any interpretation of a specific passage that contradicts the general teaching of the Bible is to be rejected." (To read the full quote, go to (www.gty.org). Click on "BIBLE FAQs". Under "SALVATION" click on "Is baptism necessary for salvation?" When you arrive at this page, search for "analogia scriptura".) |
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5 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | Theo-Minor | 126099 | ||
I'm getting the impression from these posts that you are discussing "pre-destination." I'll throw in my two cents. God is willing that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If God predetermined everyone's outcome, then he is willing to let some perish. Second, is it possible the "pre-destination" passages are saying something akin to: "God predetermined man in general for salvation to those that would believe?" Thus, by this example, people are predestined. Not predestined to a choice they are going to be compelled to make because God made his decision ages ago, but predestined for salvation through the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, so long as they should choose to answer the calling. I don't really agree with pre-destination myself. I think the passages are misinterpretted that leave people concluding that some were created and born with no hope at all because they were not amongst the elect chosen by God before they were ever given an opportunity to accept or reject. This defies the idea that God is willing that none should perish. Food for thought ... Theo-Minor |
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6 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | kalos | 126105 | ||
"He does not wish for any to perish." More food for thought. [Theo-Minor: I appreciate your reply. Grace to you, kalos] 2 Peter 3:9 (NET Bible) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any[4] to perish but for all to come to repentance. Footnote 4. "He does not wish for any to perish." '...the literary context seems to be against the Arminian view, while the historical context seems to be against (one representation of) the Calvinist view. The answer to this conundrum is found in the term "wish" (a participle in Greek from the verb boulomai). It often represents a mere wish, or one's desiderative will, rather than one's resolve. Unless God's will is viewed on the two planes of his desiderative and decretive will (what he desires and what he decrees), hopeless confusion will result. The scriptures amply illustrate both that God sometimes decrees things that he does not desire and desires things that he does not decree. It is not that his will can be thwarted, nor that he has limited his sovereignty. But the mystery of God's dealings with humanity is best seen if this tension is preserved. Otherwise, either God will be perceived as good but impotent or as a sovereign taskmaster. Here the idea that God does not wish for any to perish speaks only of God's desiderative will, without comment on his decretive will.' (http://www.bible.org/cgi-bin/netbible.pl#note_3) |
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7 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | Morant61 | 126109 | ||
Greetings Kalos! I have a problem with Netbible's definition of 'wishing' for 'boulomai' in regards to both the context of 1 Pet. 3:9 and in regards to the usage of the word throughout the NT in connection with God. First of all, the context of 1 Pet. 3:9 is concerning why Christ has not yet returned. Is Peter saying that Christ has not yet returned because He is only 'hoping' that all will come to repentance, or because He is actively working for all to come to repentance? The first option doesn't seem to make much sense, in light of the fact that He could choose to elect all if He really wanted to do so! ;-) Secondly, the word 'boulomai' is used many times in the NT in reference to God and I can't find any where 'wishing' would seem to be the sense. Allow me to list all of them: 1) Mt. 11:27 - "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." See also Luke 10:22 Here, 'boulomai' is translated as 'chooses'. Does the Son only wish to reveal the things committed to Him or does He actually determine to reveal these things to some? 2) Luke 22:42 - "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done" Is Christ asking about the Father's wishes or His definite will? 3) 1 Cor. 12:11 - "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines." Does the Spirit wish some people had gifts or does He choose to whom He distributes gifts? 4) Heb. 6:17 - "Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath." Was God only hoping that His purpose would be clear or did He act to make it clear? 5) James 1:18 - "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created." Did He choose to give us birth, or did He only hope to give us birth? These are all the occurances of 'boulomai' with God as the subject. Personally, I don't see any that would fit the definition of 'wish'. I have always wondered how a Sovereign God could 'wish' something, but it didn't happen! ;-) If He truly wished it, wouldn't it happen? Unless of course, God does allow us a choice in some things. Then, He could want us all to be saved, but all might not be saved. |
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8 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | Ray | 126122 | ||
Hi Tim, May I make a correction on your typing of 1 Peter 3:9 when you meant 2 Peter 3:9? I would like to comment on the context of 2 Peter. I see in 2 Peter the interest of receiving a faith that is equally precious to all of us. It is concerned with knowledge, words, utterances, prophetic words, true words versus false words. It talks of arrogant words and true proverbs. It talks of words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by the apostles. It speaks of the promise of the Word and His words. To me, it speaks of these things and pronouns. 2 Peter 3:9 says to me that we need to interpret, apply, and respond in repentance because of these words of promise and spirit. And that is up to us in that we have to fill ourselves with these words. 2 Peter 3:14, "Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation;...18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen." From the heart, Ray |
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9 | Do you believe in being chosen? | Gen 2:9 | Morant61 | 126127 | ||
Greetings Ray! Thanks for the correction my friend! That's what I get for typing too fast! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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