Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Two "wills" of God? | Hebrews | Morant61 | 45165 | ||
Greetings John! Not really! My understanding of sovereignty is this: 1) God ordains His grand scheme - which is to show mercy to all. 2) Within God grand scheme, He has given us the ability to choose - to respond to His grace or to reject His grace. 3) I reject the view of God's sovereignty which rules out any free will. But, do you see why I have been talking about this issue of clear statements. Calvinism muddies the water. "All" doesn't really mean 'all'. 'World' doesn't really mean 'world'. Now, 'will' doesn't really mean 'will'. :-) I firmly believe that Calvinism has to reject the clear meaning of these words simply because they do not support Calvinism. I always give my students one (among others) simple text of Biblical interpretation: The more hoops someone has to go through to explain why the text doesn't realy mean what it says, the more likely they are wrong. I don't think God made it that difficult. If He meant John 3:16 to apply to only the elect, He could have simply said: "For God so loved a select few that He gave His only begotten Son that they and only they might not perish" I'm not sure it would have had the same effect though! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Two "wills" of God? | Hebrews | John Reformed | 45184 | ||
Dear Tim, I guess one man's exigesis is another man's isogesis. I embraced calvinism against my will. I set out to disprove the very thing that I now believe with all my heart and mind. That is: that God is sovereign over the affairs of man and that man has no veto power over His eternal purpose. I am sure you are familiar with the body of scripture that supports my belief. Ps 21:5 His glory is great through Your salvation, Splendor and majesty You place upon him. Ps 79:9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Your name; And deliver us and forgive our sins for Your name's sake. Is 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'; The very idea that God is helpless to save anyone that He chooses is to say God is weak. It is a low view of His ability. He does whatever He pleases and it is always in harmony with His attributes. The Bible says man is dead in sin and cannot even recieve spiritual things, never mind believe them! But the "freewiller" says man is not so dead that he cannot resond to God. Seems like a contradiction to me. Your Friend John |
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3 | Two "wills" of God? | Hebrews | Morant61 | 45218 | ||
Greetings John! But, :-) the problem is that not one of the verses you quoted says that man is unable to respond to God's grace. This is an assumption based upon Calvin's view of God's sovereignty, not a Scripture verse. On the other hand, there are many verses where people are asked or commanded to receive. So, which do we believe? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Two "wills" of God? | Hebrews | John Reformed | 45228 | ||
Hello Tim, You wrote: the problem is that not one of the verses you quoted says that man is unable to respond to God's grace. This is an assumption based upon Calvin's view of God's sovereignty, not a Scripture verse. On the other hand, there are many verses where people are asked or commanded to receive. So, which do we believe? Scripture of course! I'm surprised you asked. Eph 2:1-5 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) In light of the fact that we were not physically dead, I think we are safe in saying that the death spoken of is spiritual death. Agree? Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Jer 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? I have cited the 2 verses above to show the univeresality of spiritual death. Need more? Just ask me, brother Tim. But I'm sure we agree on this point as well. Mark 7:21-23 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man." John 3:19-21 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. Thus far I have attempted to portray the Bibles view of man's corrupt nature. Admittedly, it is a rough sketch. I'm sure that further investigation will serve only to paint a more disgusting picture of fallen mankind. Agree? Given what we now know about man, what are the chances of his acceptance of the Gospel message. Rom 8:6-8 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God,FOR IT IS NOT EVEN ABLE TO DO SO, Rom 8:8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.(empasis is mine) How then, if we believe the Scripture are we to saved? By a faith that exists in a creature thus descibed? I don't see how. Job 15:14-16 "What is man, that he should be pure, Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? Behold, He puts no trust in His holy ones, And the heavens are not pure in His sight; How much less one who is detestable and corrupt, Man, who drinks iniquity like water! It is clear (at least to me) that man in his dead state cannot repent, believe the Gospel or come to Christ. I'll continue on my next post. John Reformed |
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