Results 1 - 5 of 5
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | Morant61 | 43464 | ||
Greetings John! I'm glad that we are brothers my friend. I felt like I did deal with the verse - 'all' means 'all. :-) Of course I believe, as you do, that John 12:32 indicates what manner of death Jesus is about to face. However, that still doesn't negate Jesus' statement that He would 'draw' all men to Him. My problem with Calvin's approach is simple. I can quote literally hundreds of verses which state that God desires all to be saved, died for the sins of the world, that whosoever can respond, ect.... Calvin, because of his belief that God only elects some, take all of these clear statments and redefines them. All becomes some, whole becomes part, and whosoever becomes whosoever God gives the will to come. I was always taught that any interpretation which requires mental gymnastics to explain away the plain meaning of the words used is probably wrong. In fact, I use this principle when I teach new Christians how to study the Bible. Let me give you an example which is not associated with the C and A debate. I heard a guy on the radio once who argued that Mt. 24:36 didn't really mean that 'no one knows'. He argued that 'know' here meant general knowledge. So, it would not be common knowledge when Christ returned, but some would know. Obviously, this is a case of mental gymnastics. My contention with many of Calvin's positions is that He does the same thing with the universal passages. The only way I would ever convert to Calvin's way of thinking is if someone can produce verses which plainly (not based upon one's inference) that: 1) God does not desire to save all. 2) Christ did not die for all. 3) That not everyone can respond. If someone can produce clear statements of these facts, then I could accept Calvinism. Until then my friend, this thread could go on forever. :-) So, I recommend we leave it as is. We have lain out our positions and those who read the forum can decide for themselves which position is Biblical and which is not. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
2 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | John Reformed | 44998 | ||
Hi Tim, You said: The only way I would ever convert to Calvin's way of thinking is if someone can produce verses which plainly (not based upon one's inference) that: 1) God does not desire to save all. 2) Christ did not die for all. 3) That not everyone can respond. Let's look at your first requirement. I do not offer one verse but an entire chapter; Romans 9. Now, I know you discard the calvinist's position on 9 based on the idea that Paul, in refering to Jacob and Esau, is speaking of nations and not indivduals. I disagree because Rom 9:6-8 clearly states: "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants." The "children of the promise" are God's elect! The problem for the arminian is that the literal rendering of the text refutes his cherished theology. Egads! Face it brother Tim, there is no reason to "read" nations into this chapter. 9:3-6 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, MY KINSMAN ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. BUT it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are NOT all Israel who are descended from Israel;" I (John Adams) am not an Israelite, but I am a son of Abraham. I am mentione in Romans 9 (children of the promise). Gal 3:7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. Gal 3:8-9 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU. So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. Once "nations" are properly rejected as an interpretation, the plain meaning of Ro 9 leaps from the page. He Reigns, John |
||||||
3 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | Morant61 | 45027 | ||
Greetings John! You can read my reasons for my interpretation in other posts on this issue. I don't want to go into all the detail right now. But, I can summarize as follows: 1) All of the quotes from the OT deals with nations. 2) The context of Rom. 9-11 deals with nations. 3) Romans 11 makes the purpose of election clear - to have mercy on all. So, I firmly beleive that Rom. 9-11 supports my position. I love these three chapters. :-) But, even if we take your approach my friend, there is no verse in Rom. 9-11 which says, "I do not desire to save some." ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
4 | Two "wills" of God? | Hebrews | John Reformed | 45120 | ||
Dear Tim, Do you believe that there are different meanings attached to the term "will" that are comprehended from the context that the term is found in? John |
||||||
5 | Two "wills" of God? | Hebrews | LuckyCharm | 45155 | ||
Hi John, Which passage are you referring to in particular? FWIW, I have heard a distinction between God's "permissive" will and His "active" will (or at least I believe those were the terms used). Funny you should ask this today -- I was just pondering the will of God earlier this morning.... Peace, --Cheryl |
||||||