Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | John Reformed | 42607 | ||
Dear Tim, John 6:70...Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"... Jesus is addresing the fact that He chose the 12 apostles. John 13:18..."I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.'... Jesus here speaks to the 12 apostles but says that not all of them are chosen by Him! I can not help but notice that in John 13:18, Jesus gives the OT Scripture that answers the question regarding what scriptue He referred to In John 17:12. Therefore, unless we be found guilty of claiming a contradiction, we must look to verses that more clearly speak to the subject of Judas's election. We have already are involved in He 6:6, which led us to John 17:12 and I believe we are at an impasse there. Let me address Matt 23 in my repy to your 2nd post. Soli Deo Gloria, John |
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2 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | Morant61 | 42633 | ||
Greetings John! Not to keep beating a dead horse, but may I make a quick observation about John 6:70. The Greek literally reads: "Jesus answered them, 'Did I not choose you - the Twelve? And out of you one is a devil.'" Grammatically, Judas was included among the 12 who were chosen. Jesus Himself asked, "Did I not choose you - the Twelve?" Then, He states that "from" the twelve (who were chosen by Him), one is a devil. If Jesus meant to say that Judas was not one of the 12 who were chosen, He would have said that He had chosen 11! ;-) And, out of the 12, one is a devil. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | John Reformed | 42643 | ||
Dear Tim, You failed to address the apparent contradiction to John 6:70 from John 13:18. Calvins point was that in the first instance the election of Judas was to the office of apostle. In the 2nd instance it was made obvious that Judas was not among the others elected unto salvation. John |
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4 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | Morant61 | 42658 | ||
Greetings John! Evening my friend! John 13:8 doesn't say that Judas was not chosen. This would make it a contradiction to John 6:70 which says he was chosen. John 13:8 simply says "I do not say this concerning all of you, for I know whom I have chosen." The reference to "not all of you" could be a reference to the promised blessing of JOhn 13:7. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | John Reformed | 42713 | ||
Dear Tim, Good Morning! I really don't see any justification (except the demand of one's presuppositions) for connecting verse 7 with 18. John 13:18 clearly shows that Christ had not chosen all of the 12 and we agree that the unamed person was Judas. Brother John |
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6 | Hebrews 6:6 explained | Hebrews | Morant61 | 42756 | ||
Greetings John! Good morning to you as well my friend! I think you may have mis-read my response. I didn't say v. 7, but v. 17. My point was simply that a contradiction involves one verse saying one thing while another verse says the exact opposite - in the same terms. John 13:18 does not say, "I did not choose one of you". It says, "I am not speaking of all of you, for I know whom I have chosen." This can be interpreted in a couple of ways. 1) Your way: "I am not speaking of all of you" means that not all were chosen. 2) Or: "I am not speaking of all of you" could refer to the blessing just mentioned in v. 17. In this case, the phrase "I know whom I have chosen" affirms His knowledge of what will or will not happen to those He has chosen. For it to contradict John 6:70, it would have to say, "I did not choose all of you." I do agree that the unnamed person is Judas! The difference between this verse and John 6:70 though is that 6:70 specifically says that He chose all 12, while 13:18 does not say that Judas was not choosen. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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