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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | New Creature | 180938 | ||
I prefer the NASB for it's word for word literalness. Below is what I believe is one translations miswording. Heb 6:6 KJV If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. From what I understand the word "if" was inserted into the King James Translation by a person named Beza who was a disciple of John Calvin, and there is no justification for it whatsoever in the Greek. The NASB says, "and then have fallen away"; the ASV puts it, "and then fell away"; the word "if" is not in the Greek in verse 6: In earlier translations vs. 6 reads: And having fallen away which was restored back to original meaning in the NASB Weymouth says "and then fall away"; Goodspeed translates it "and yet have fallen back." Consider what Adam Clarke wrote about this and the aorist tense: "And having fallen away." I can express my own mind on this translation nearly in the words of Dr. Macknight: "The participles who were enlightened, have tasted, and were made partakers, being aorists, are properly rendered by our translators in the past time; wherefore parapesontas, being an aorist, ought likewise to have been translated in the past time, ‘HAVE fallen away.’ Nevertheless, our translators, following …… Beza, who without any authority from ancient MSS. has inserted in his version the word ‘if,’ have rendered this clause, IF they fall away, that this text might not appear to contradict the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. But as no translator should take upon him to add to or alter the Scriptures, for the sake of any favourite doctrine, I have translated parapesontas in the past time, ‘have fallen away,’ according to the true import of the word, as standing in connection with the other aorists in the preceding verses" (italics and capitals his). |
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2 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | kalos | 180985 | ||
From the following sampling of translations it can be seen that some English versions (some older and some newer) use the word "if" (as in "if they fall away") and some don't. Hebrews 6:6 The Amplified Bible If they then deviate from the faith and turn away from their allegiance--[it is impossible] to bring them back to repentance, for (because, while, as long as) they nail upon the cross the Son of God afresh [as far as they are concerned] and are holding [Him] up to contempt and shame and public disgrace. The Holy Bible, New International Version® if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. The American Standard Version and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. The New King James Version if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. The Revised Standard Version if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. Young's Literal Translation and having fallen away, again to renew [them] to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame. The Geneva Bible (1587) If they fal away, should be renued againe by repentance: seeing they crucifie againe to themselues the Sonne of God, and make a mocke of him. Holman Christian Standard Bible® and who have fallen away, because, to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt. Holy Bible, English Standard Version if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. J.P. Green's Literal Translation and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame. |
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3 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | New Creature | 181003 | ||
Hi kalos It's just that there isn't any warrant for the use of the word "if" for Heb. 6:6. A quick look at the Greek will bear this out. The word "if" is believed to have been inserted by Calvin's sucessor Theodore Beza in an attempt to lend support to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints. Therefore the correct rendering of Heb. 6:6 is as follows: and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. NASB Blessings NC |
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4 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | DocTrinsograce | 181005 | ||
Hi, NC... This is the first I've heard of this conspiracy theory regarding Theodore Beza effecting such a change! So, what you're saying is that Beza was able to devise a way to influence the translators of the Geneva, the King James, and English Standard Versions in order to promote the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? Such power these French theologians have over English translators... and even from the grave! ;-) But if Beza did actually effect the translators, it is sad that Hebrews 6:6 was never actually used by the divines in authoring the great English documents of the Reformation: the Westminster Confession, the Thirty-Nine Articles, the Savoy Declaration, and the London Baptist Confessions 1689. By the way, I don't find it referenced in the non-English Councils of Dort and the Heidelberg Confession either! The verses they did use, however, include passages like Job 17:9; Psalms 1:3; 23; 34:7; 48:14; 92:12; 125:1; 138:8; Ecclesiastes 3:14; Isaiah 46:4; Jeremiah 32:40; Ezekiel 11:19-20; Matthew 7:24; 10:20; John 4:14; 5:24; 6:37-40, 47, 51; 10:28-30; 11:25; 17:24; Romans 4:8; 6:23; 8:17, 28-39; 11:29; 14:4; 1 Corinthians 10:13; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 4:8-9, 14; 9:8; Ephesians 1:14; 4:30; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 2 Timothy 4:18; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 10:14; 1 John 5:13; Revelation 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12-15; 21:27. Do you think Beza doctored (no pun intended) these verses as well? In Him, Doc PS He got to them on Hebrews 6:6 in the Amplified version, too! |
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5 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | kalos | 181014 | ||
Most amazing is the idea that the translators of the Geneva Bible (1587) were in a conspiracy that involved the King James Version (1611), which didn't even exist at the time of the publication of the Geneva Bible. The Geneva Bible (1587) If they fal away, should be renued againe by repentance: seeing they crucifie againe to themselues the Sonne of God, and make a mocke of him. |
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6 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | New Creature | 181026 | ||
The Bishop's Bible (1568) Heb. 6:6 - And they fall away, shoulde be renued agayne into repentaunce, hauyng crucified to the selues the sonne of God a fresshe, and made a mocke of hym. |
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7 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | kalos | 181038 | ||
So what are we going to do now, play dueling versions? One pre-KJV version uses the word "if". Another does not. And from that you draw what conclusion? | ||||||
8 | What translation do you prefer and why? | Heb 6:6 | New Creature | 181062 | ||
kalos I don't care to play dueling versions, I just gave you an example of a pre-KJV, pre-Geneva Bible which omits the word "if" If my desire was to prove "if" shouldn't be included in the wording of Heb. 6:6, I would take you to a Greek word study, which proves that any translation using the word "if" is doing so without any warrant from the Greek. Blessings NC |
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