Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God really just? | Deut 32:4 | EdB | 30538 | ||
So are you saying, there is going to be no one at the judgement seat? Arminians understand the price of sin has been paid at the cross, but you have believe in Christ to receive that payment. We believe a just God made that choice available to all. Calvinist believe God only presents that choice to some. While I will not dare to be presumptuous toward God in matters I do not fully understand that appears to be unjust. EdB |
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2 | Is God really just? | Deut 32:4 | Lionstrong | 30548 | ||
Dear Brother Ed, you write, "So are you saying, there is going to be no one at the judgement seat? "Arminians understand the price of sin has been paid at the cross, but you have [to] believe in Christ to receive that payment. We believe a just God made that choice available to all. Calvinist believe God only presents that choice to some. While I will not dare to be presumptuous toward God in matters I do not fully understand that appears to be unjust. EdB" Re-read my post concerning the judgment seat. Again, Brother Ed, you affirm that Christ has paid for the sins of all. So, again you affirm that Christ and the non-believer both pay for the same sins, first Christ on the cross and then the non-believer on judgment day. Further, how can my Arminian brother say that God "made that choice available to all" when we know that some have never heard the Gospel? How does my Arminian brother support from Scripture that God has "made that choice available to all" when we know that there are still unreached people dying today who have never heard the Gospel? By means of God-sent preachers (to include us when we witness) God presents the choice to some. Those whom he quickens and enables by His Spirit will choose to believe. (Rom 10:14) Finally, God is not unjust when he does not extend mercy to sinners. He can only be unjust when he does not give sin its wages. TO BE JUST IS TO GIVE WHAT IS DESERVED. To extend or withold mercy is not a justice issue, because all sins are punished, either in Christ on the cross for the believer or in the non-believing sinner himself on judgment day. The sins of the believers only were punished in Christ and it was for the sins of His people alone that He died. Matt 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." Is 53:6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. (Before you jump on the "all" think about the "us.") Again, Rom 3:26 "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be JUST and the justifier of THE ONE WHO HAS FAITH IN JESUS." This does not appear unjust to me. The sinner AND Christ paying for the same sins does. Peace, Lionstrong |
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3 | Is God really just? | Deut 32:4 | EdB | 30624 | ||
Lionstrong Again I do not know how God will handle people that never heard the gospel. Hoiwever Romans does tell us nature even confesses there is a God and implies God has this handled. Let's get back to the point. If I'm hearing you right your saying justice is served because the price of sin has been paid either by Christ at the cross or by the sinner at the judgement seat. I will agree with that. Explain once more how only offering salvation through Christ to some is just for all. If you happen to be one that didn't have Christ offered to you I think as you stood before the judgement seat you might ask "why wasn't He offered to me?" How salvation works is a wonder. Each time I witness a new salvation I'm thrilled as to how it did happen. I usually try to interview the new convert and without fail their story shows a wonderful miracle of God has just taken place. After having done this for a number of years, of this I’m sure. The explanations offered by either Calvin or Armianus fall far short of what took place. Each time two thoughts come to the surface, “I don’t know why” but “I had to make the choice”. I see salvation a combination of election and free choice . That said, for God to be just I see the need to offer salvation to all not just the elect. EdB |
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4 | Is God really just? | Deut 32:4 | Reformer Joe | 30643 | ||
Ed: You wrote: "Explain once more how only offering salvation through Christ to some is just for all." It isn't. JUSTICE for all would mean hell for all. Justice is giving us what we deserve, and no one deserves salvation. The question is whether God extends MERCY to all. You also wrote: "If you happen to be one that didn't have Christ offered to you I think as you stood before the judgement seat you might ask 'why wasn't He offered to me?'" And the Bible says: 'So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?' --Romans 9:18-21 You wrote: "I see salvation a combination of election and free choice ." And it is, but it is God who decrees us to make the free choice, enlightens our fallen minds to the good news of Jesus Christ, enables our wills to make the free choice, and persuades us successfully to make the free choice. --Joe! |
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5 | Is God really just? | Deut 32:4 | EdB | 30646 | ||
Joe Yes I understand true justice would be for us all to be in hell. But we are talking Salvation and yes I understand it is an act of mercy. But unless it is offered to all it is conditional and seemingly unjust. As for your references to Romans 9:18-21 it does not declare the final outcome of those that God hardens the heart of for His purposes so again we have to trust in God to be just. To me that is talking about particular people that God had special purposes for and since he purposed their behavior I will not speculate on how He deals with their salvation. Which in fact is what this passage is saying. Your last paragraph is not an explanation of free choice but of manipulation of which I believe God is far above. EdB |
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6 | Is God really just? | Deut 32:4 | Reformer Joe | 30649 | ||
Ed: Just because something SEEMS unjust to us, it that because it is indeed unjust or because of the fact that deep down we feel like God is "required" to show mercy to all (a very American sentiment, to be sure). Salvation is indeed conditional in a sense (stange thing for a Calvinist to say, I know). The difference of opinion that we have is whether salvation is conditioned upon our will or God's. I am going to stop here because we have already extensively discussed this on "ye olde forum." I think you will agree that we need to worship God as He reveals Himself in Scripture rather than the way we think He should be. --Joe! |
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7 | Is God really just? | Deut 32:4 | EdB | 30651 | ||
Joe I agree we need to stop. I have been very uncomfortable about this dialogue. God has declared Himself to be just and that is fact! While neither of us has implied or inferred that God is anything less than just, however to a casual reader they may be confused as to what we are saying. Joe believe me when I say I truly respect you and your opinion. As I said previously salvation and the acceptance of it is far more wondrous, miraculous, and mysterious than either Calvin or Arminimus' explanations portray. EdB |
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