Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | Country Girl | 128819 | ||
Quoted for reference: Rev 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this: Rev 3:15 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. Rev 3:16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. Rev 3:17 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. Rev 3:19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. Rev 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Rev 3:22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'" Obviously, I don't have the education background you show but it seems this letter to the Laodiceans was simple and straight forward like the other six letters to the churches in Asia. Some churches were praiseworthy but most received harsh criticism from our Lord like most of us would if we were all judged today. Anyway, verse 20 is just a simple statement that our God wants to be the center of our lives as shown throughout the rest of Bibles, BUT the Lord's attitude is obvious here. He's NOT going to barge in and thrust Himself on anybody if they don't want Him in their lives. I hope this is clear. Blessings to you. Country Girl |
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2 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | DocTrinsograce | 128982 | ||
Rev 2:7a He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches The passage that you quoted from is part of the Holy Spirit's message to the seven churches mentioned. (Of course these messages are intended to be studied to our benefit as well.) Who were these Churches? The word church, first came into use by Christ Himself. It refers to a collection of believers. Thus, as we are told seven times in Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 29, 3:6, 13, and 22, these messages are to believers. Rev 3:20 gives the metaphor of Christ knocking at the door. This metaphor has been the subject of paintings and illustrations. Consequently, it has also been used as an evangelical metaphor, just as you have done. Since this message was to saved people, it couldn't possibly be evangelical in nature. Furthermore, we have even more conclusive evidence that it is not evangelical. Take a look at James 5:8-9 which states, "You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door." Christ is the Judge. In James we see this is not so much a metaphor as an idiom. So it isn't about evangelism at all. Instead, its about impending judgment. Although appeals to other authorities are much less conclusive than the evidences above, I think you should know that the view that 3:20 is evangelical originates with John Wesley and was furthered by Charles G. Finney. On the other hand, most other orthodox scholars use these passages to encourage believers to renewed diligence in their walk with Christ. Country Girl, you have stated elsewhere that you want scripture, not men's opinion, to guide your understanding. Here is clear scriptural evidence. If you choose to retain your view on decisional regeneration, this verse, at least, should not be used as support for that position. Regarding OSAS I really liked Hank's post. In my opinion he explained things very lucidly. I am complete agreement with his post. Sorry if this sounds too terse... I get rather excited about taking scripture in context and using scripture to clarify scripture. My hearts desire is for all believers to rightly divide the word. |
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3 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | mark d seyler | 128985 | ||
Hi Doc Trinsograce and Country Girl, I consider this passage in view of 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." This church of Loadicea has become almost entirely composed of those who are spoken of by John, those who are not of us, those who would eventually go out and be made manifest. But Jesus is not going to wait for that. When our Father chooses, Jesus will call out His own, leaving a completely apostate church behind, which He will spit out of His mouth. Meanwhile, in the time that remains, He knocks, seeking to be invited into those that claim His name, but do not actually have fellowship. I have never thought of Jesus outside the door bringing judgment because He wants to come in for fellowship. This is just how I understand this passage, but it seems to be in harmony with the rest of His Word. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | Human Power? | John 15:5 | DocTrinsograce | 128993 | ||
Hi, Mark. Thank you for the comments. At Christ's second coming He will be coming as Judge. He came as Savior at His first coming. We are told to be sober and watchful for that day. Christ Himself said, (Luke 21:34-36) "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Note that these warnings are the exact kind of snares into which the Ladoceans fell.) Furthermore, we are told that as an ultimate reward we will sit with Him and sup with Him. Revelation 19:9a "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb." So Christ's offer to sup and fellowship with the beiever at His coming is not out of place. James, exhorting the saints, makes reference to Christ's return in the same manner... and uses the same idiom of the door (as has been noted in a former post). So, Mark, it remains harmonious with the rest of scripture. Now, regarding the Laodiceans, let us remember what Paul said about the Corinthians. The Corinthian church had really gotten itself into a real mess... I'd think even more of a mess than Laodiceans. Nevertheless, Paul still calls them saints. 1 Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. However, in that same passage, he warns them that their works will be tested. 1 Cor 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Doesn't this language sound familiar? To the Ladoiceans Christ says, "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire." I appreciate your comments. They were well worth a response. However, the preponderance of scriptural evidence does not support your hermeneutic. |
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