Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | kalos | 161888 | ||
'White Lies and Other Deceptions' by Gregory Koukl ____________________ "...we're not obliged to tell everything we know." ____________________ 'Is lying ever right? Is trespassing? Is violence? Some thoughts to help you sharpen your ability to make ethical decisions. 'I think lying is wrong. However, we have to be clear on what constitutes lying, that is, immoral deception. It seems that not all deceptions are immoral. Did you ever make a fake while playing basketball? Isn't such a feint a deception? It is, but I don't think most people would consider it immoral, even though it was, in fact, deceptive. 'There are other examples. We dress to flatter our figures instead of being entirely truthful about our physical shape. We wear hairpieces if our hair is thinner than we'd like to show. There are times we're not forthcoming with all the truth. More could be said, but we withhold information. 'So it seems reasonable to say there are "deceptions" we wouldn't really consider immoral--faking in basketball, trying to dress in a flattering way, or not being forthcoming with all the information we might have. 'Incidentally, I don't think Jesus was always forthright. Take, for example, the woman at the well (John 4). Jesus had a goal He was not immediately forthright about. I don't see this as manipulation, though, but as sensitivity to the moment. If Jesus wasn't always entirely forthright in some cases, yet we know He never committed any sin, then that means it isn't necessarily a sin if you're not forthright about everything. 'Take this example. You come into a store and want to get the best price for something you intend to buy. You've done some research, but you don't let on up front. Instead, as a tactical move you play stupid. There is a kind of deception here, one could argue, but I think you'd be hard pressed to call it sinful. It seems we're not obliged to tell everything we know. 'On the one hand, there are blatant deceptions that are clearly sinful. Then there also seems to be a category of deceptions that don't rise to the category of sin. Then you have, in the middle, situations I would call moral dilemmas. These are more difficult judgment calls. 'A moral dilemma is when you must choose one of two things, but either thing would be wrong to do when taken on its own. Do you endanger a human life, or do you tell a lie? If you choose to tell the truth, you may do right by telling the truth, but it seems you do wrong by exposing a human being to serious harm. If you protect the human being by lying, well, you've saved a life, but told a lie. That is a moral or ethical dilemma. 'There are a couple of different ways Christians have approached this historically. One is to claim there really is no such thing as an ethical dilemma. Some will say you should never lie, you should always tell the truth, and let God worry about the consequences. 'What if you see a woman run into an alley to escape someone who's trying to kill her, and they ask you, "Where is she?" What do you do? Do you send them on a wild goose chase to protect the woman's life? Or do you lead them to their victim? 'Some would say you are morally obliged to tell exactly where she's hiding and let God take care of it. But that option can cut in both directions. Why not protect her by lying and let God take care of it by forgiving the lie? Which do you choose? This question is at the heart of all ethical dilemmas.' (To read the entire article, go to: www.str.org/free/commentaries/ ethics/lie.htm) Makarios: Thank you for posting an excellent reply to this question. In my opinion, when people choose not to lie and their choice leads to the murder of innocent men, women and children (as in the time of Pharoah or Hitler), these people are giving a higher priority to their own "righteousness" than they are to human life. These people have chosen to be as wise as doves and as harmless as serpents. Who says we are obliged to tell everything we know? Grace to you, Kalos |
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2 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | Makarios | 161934 | ||
Greetings Kalos, Your observations here are excellent also, and I believe that you have written the best post yet on this subject in this thread. I most certainly agree: Christians are by no means obligated to tell everyone everything that we know when we know that the given truth will lead to a greater evil. I believe that the example as given in Scripture in Exodus 1:15-22 speaks volumes on this subject, and anyone who takes Exodus 20:16 in a straightforward, literal fashion most certainly has a problem with this bit of Scripture. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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3 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | mark d seyler | 161935 | ||
Hi Makarios, Exodus 20:16, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" This is not what the midwives in Egypt were doing, so this is not the correct scripture to apply. I am one who takes this scripture in a straightforward, literal fashion, but more to the point, the scriptures such as Tim presented that speak directly against lies of any kind. Was God not able to bless the midwives, to multiply the Hebrews, and to establish the midwive's households, except that they lie, a thing that God hates? Now, I am not talking about volunteering or withholding information. That is a separate discussion. I am talking about speaking a falsehood intentionally. God said that David was a "man after God's own heart". Jesus was heir to the throne through Soloman, a man who wouldn't have been born except for David's adultery and murder. But I don't know of anyone using that to say that adultery and murder are ok. How is it that we use that same logic here? If God says He hates "a lying tongue", how can we say that certain lies are actually ok? I just don't understand that. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | Makarios | 161939 | ||
Greetings Mark, This is where you and Tim are wrong: you are saying that lying is a sin in all circumstances. What I am simply pointing out to you is that Scripture shows us and even provides an example of where lying is not necessarily the wrong thing to do. And God did not show in Exodus 1:20 His anger, but he gave the midwives families. So, you cannot say that lying is promoted in the Bible, because it is certainly not something for a Christian to make a practice of, as Tim so well pointed out. But where you and Tim are wrong is when the circumstances have a part to play, and Scripture plainly proves that. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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5 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | mark d seyler | 161940 | ||
Hi Makarios, For one thing, God rewarded the midwives for fearing Him, which they demonstrated by saving the baby's lives. There is nothing in this story that shows that God condoned or approved their lying about it. We are told how they dealt with being confronted about what they were doing, we are not given commentary on how they dealt with the confrontation, and whether or not God wanted them to lie about it. We have three options here: (a) God wanted them to lie. (b) God didn't care whether or not they lied. (c) God wanted them to not lie. Of these, only one, (c), is not in conflict with ALL scriptures that state God's view of lying. I do not agree that the Bible teaches situational morality. The thief that steals because he has no food still has to make restitution. Prov 6:30 Men do not despise a thief if he steals To satisfy himself when he is hungry; 31 But when he is found, he must repay sevenfold; He must give all the substance of his house. Ok, it seems that there is a good reason, but it's still wrong. The hungry one needs to trust God for food, and not steal to get it. Love in Christ, Mark |
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6 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | Makarios | 161972 | ||
Greetings Mark, You are reading way too much into the text.. There is simply no mention of any punishment being given to the midwives in Exodus 1:15-22, not by Pharaoh or by God. In fact the verse says, "GOD DEALT WELL WITH THE MIDWIVES" [ESV].. So how is "dealing well" with someone imply any kind of punishment or judgment??? One thing that Tim likes to say is that he does not argue about things where Scripture is silent, and I find you doing just that in this verse if you continue to imply that there was some forthcoming punishment because the Hebrew midwives lied to Pharaoh. Therefore, the Bible says that it was Ok in this verse about lying under the circumstances. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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7 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | mark d seyler | 161978 | ||
Hi Makarios, I don't recall saying anything about the midwives being punished. Can you point me to where I said that? I couldn't find that as I reviewed my posts. To quote myself: "We are told how they dealt with being confronted about what they were doing, we are not given commentary on how they dealt with the confrontation, and whether or not God wanted them to lie about it." I apologize if I was not clear. We are told that they lied. We are not told what God thought about that. To say that God approved because we are not told about His view of their lie, that is is the arguement from silence. Love in Christ, Mark |
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8 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | Makarios | 162042 | ||
Greetings Mark, I will quote the entire Exodus passage for you and Tim.. (Exodus 1:15-22) "Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah and the other Puah, when you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women and see them on the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him, but if it is a daughter, she shall live." But the midwives feared God and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live. So the king of Egypt called the midwives and said to them, "Why have you done this, and let the male children live?" The midwives said to Pharaoh, "Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women, for they are vigorous and give birth before the midwife comes to them." So God dealt well with the midwives. And the people multiplied and grew very strong. And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families. Then Pharaoh commanded all his people, "Every son that is born to the Hebrews you shall cast into the Nile, but you shall let every daughter live." FACT: The midwives lied and deceived Pharaoh. FACT: Neither Pharaoh nor God punished the midwives. FACT: God blessed the midwives with families. Therefore, in certain circumstances it is not wrong to lie. Again, I find myself repeating myself over and over again on a topic with you and Tim. But I will not relent this time no matter how tired and disappointed I am of your stubbornness to see through to logic and Biblical truth. --Makarios |
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9 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | Wild Olive Shoot | 162046 | ||
Makarios, Just one question for you. According to God’s word, who is the father of lies? John 8:44 will put you on the right path. WOS |
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10 | Is it always a sin to lie? | Ex 20:16 | Makarios | 162050 | ||
Greetings WOS, Satan is the father of lies. Let me ask you: Would Satan choose to kill Moses when he was a child and Jesus when He was a child, or would Satan even stoop so low that he would choose to lie even to save them? --Makarios |
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