Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Lionstrong, maybe this will clarify... | 2 Chr 7:14 | Bill Mc | 17624 | ||
Dear Lionstrong, I am not sure that I understand your statement. Yes, the whole of Scripture (the Bible) is inspired. Do I believe that that inspiration extends down to the verse level and word level? Yes, I do. But, per my prior post, not every verse is given for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness. Everything that we need is contained in the Bible (but is actually found in Jesus Christ - 2 Pet 1:3 'seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.') Permit me to illustrate. (Illustrations are not scripture but sometimes they are helpful.) Let's say that I hire you as a modern-day scribe. I am going to dictate to you an owner's manual for my 1990 Ford Aerostar van. You transcribe everything that I tell you on your word-processor. When I am done dictating, I say, "Lionstrong, I trust that you wrote down everything that I told you. Whoever uses this manual will find it useful for vehicle orientation, operation, scheduled maintenance, repair, and servicing of this vehicle." Now, if you did your job correctly, what you wrote down is 'inspired' by me. (As a said, don't take this illustration too far. The writers of the Scripture did not dictate as such. They were not robots merely transcribing.) But the manual has divisions in it. You would not consult the 'Operation' section to find out where the nearest service center is. You would not look in the 'Repair and Servicing' section to see how to turn on the windshield wipers. You would not search through the 'Scheduled Maintenance' section to find out how to change a tire. The entire manual would be 'inspired' by me but I would have organized it into sections to make it user-friendly for the owners. This is all I am saying. All of the Scripture is inspired by God but He has organized it to make it 'user-friendly' for us. (Obviously, if we don't read it, it won't do us much good.) But we need to use the right scriptures for the right application. This is something that I believe the Holy Spirit and study will enable us to do. Lionstrong, does this help explain the reason for my post? Complete in Him, Bill Mc |
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2 | Lionstrong, maybe this will clarify... | 2 Chr 7:14 | Lionstrong | 17628 | ||
Dear Bill, Thanks. I understand and agree with "the whole" of your explanation. But you defined the word all as "the whole of" which you further said meant "not all." Of course I understood you were refering to "teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness," but the word all modifies the word Scripture. Therefore it cannot mean "the whole of" as you were using the phrase. But all this is beside the point, Steve's point, that is. "This passage does not apply to the US or Christians?" True, it may not have reproof; it may not have correction, but is it true that this passage has no application to God's NT Israel? Peace, Lionstong |
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3 | Lionstrong, maybe this will clarify... | 2 Chr 7:14 | Searcher56 | 17648 | ||
READ THE CONTEXT of 2 Chronicles 7:14 God's NT Israel is the nation whose capital is Jerusalem. Read Rom 11:25 to see there is Israel and Gentiles ... and the context too. Steve |
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4 | Lionstrong, maybe this will clarify... | 2 Chr 7:14 | Lionstrong | 17666 | ||
Dear Steve, ............. ¶ Somewhere on the thread above was presented scriptural support that believing Jews and gentiles are the true Israel of God, to which you agreed. "Not all Israel is Israel." The Church is the NT Israel. Believing gentiles have been grafted in to the people of God in fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that all nations would be blessed in his seed, that is, Christ. By faith gentiles now are the children of Abraham. Jews (physical descendants of Abraham) who do not believe in Christ are not sons of Abraham but of the devil. (John 8) ........ ¶ How has anything I've written about 2Chron 7:14 been contrary to the context of this verse? The context shows a God who answers prayer. Is this not applicable to God's NT Israel? ...... ¶Peace, Lionstrong |
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5 | Lionstrong, maybe this will clarify... | 2 Chr 7:14 | Searcher56 | 17669 | ||
I never said the church was Israel. The Church is NOT the NT Israel. We are Gentiles, not Israel. Yes, we have been grafted in. You have been mistaught, again. I the context of 2 Chronicles 7:14 a God who answers prayer? Read it again. Answer my questions. Then respond. No more until you repsond to my questions. Verse 13 ... has there been no rain? Verse 14 ... do the Christians have a land? Verse 15 ... are we in Jerusalem or the Temple? Verse 16 ... has God consentrated a place other than Israel? |
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6 | Lionstrong, maybe this will clarify... | 2 Chr 7:14 | Lionstrong | 18132 | ||
2 Tim 3:1617 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. Dear Steve, Since you do not accept that God has only one true people and that therefore the church is one with his OT people, then you will not accept this response to your challenge. But, nonetheless, here goes: Please note that this is not "spiritualizing" the text. ? This is not a denial of the immediate application of the text in its historical setting. It is interpreting Scripture with Scripture. It is looking at the text and asking what the rest of Scripture says either about this text in particular or about the subjects of this text. What does Scripture say about calamity and God's people? What does it teach about confessing sin? How does the whole of Scripture deal with the temple, and Jerusalem? What about consecration; how does the Bible deal with this issue? V. 13 - no rain. "No rain" is not the only hardship Solomon had petitioned God about. So, God was giving an abbreviation of a long list of petitions recorded in the previous chapter. This list not only included natural disasters, but also dealt with conflicts with the enemies of God's people. So rather than summarizing v. 13 as "no rain," it would be better to summarize it as calamity and war. When given a better summary the answer is yes. V. 14. God addresses HIS people, which is what we are, but since the coming of his Son, his people come from many nations, no longer just one. As such, we do not posses a land of our own anymore, although Israel according to the flesh does. The first part of what God promises (to forgive as we confess our sins) still applies, and is repeated in 1 John 1:9. But in what sense (spiritual, physical?) does the second promise apply? This was my original question put to Brother Leabeater at the beginning of the thread, not "if" it applies, for I believe it does, but "how." You'll recall that Paul applies the promise of the fifth commandment to gentile believer (Eph. 6) although it was given in the context of the OT church. Even though the immediate application of the promise is to Israeli real estate, Paul applies the promise to gentile believers. So, the promise of the healing of the land in like manner must in some way apply to God's people today, just like "that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee" applies to believing gentile kids who obey their parents. You'll also note that under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul extends the promise from the land to the whole earth. V. 15 - In Jerusalem or in the Temple. Paul, you know, takes the promises given to the OT church and applies them to God's NT Israel. Believing Jews and gentiles share in the commonwealth of Israel (Eph. 2). God taught his OT church through types to look forward to the reality in the Messiah. To make a long dissertation short, we are the temple of God (1 Cor 3:16, 1 Jn. 3:24) in which he dwells by his Spirit. So, yes, we can pray in the temple. V. 16 - "I have chosen and consecrated this house." Are we a consecrated house? How can anyone doubt that we are a , if not the, consecrated house of God? 1 Pet 2:4,5 says, "And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." Maybe some who make a dichotomy between the OT church and the NT Israel will say that the letters of Peter do not apply to believers because it is written to the "Diaspora" (1 Pet. 1:1). Tell me, since you say "2 Tim 3:16 is for Christians, and some say the world, but 1 Cor 7:14 is not for us," then 1 Chro. 7:14 is therefore not profitable for us, why do you even bother to read this "unprofitable" section of Scripture, or do you? Or why does your pastor bother to preach this "unprofitable" portion of the Word, or does he? Peace, Lionstrong |
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7 | Lionstrong, maybe this will clarify... | 2 Chr 7:14 | Searcher56 | 18235 | ||
Lionstrong, You may choose to misapply this verse incorrectly. The church is not NT Israel, that is why Paul showed the differences. Do you know these verses? Steve | ||||||