Bible Question:
Looking for thoughts on this Scripture: Romans 9 1 I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit-- 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![1] Amen. 6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." 10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Your thoughts? Curt |
Bible Answer: Brother Curt and others: I have read all the posts thus far, and agree that this subject has been debatable for centuries. Was John Calvin a Calvinist? I enjoyed the idea that the Father by his Spirit draws us to Christ and when we are brought to him, he will not cast us out. In regards to the words of the Lord Jesus which have been referred to previously: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth will draw (all) men to me."(John 12:32) This was fulfilled in the short term at the cross, when people from all nationalites "stood and watched him there". The interesting thing is that of the responses of those who were brought to the cross. Some wept in sympathy, others reviled, some mocked and the thief asked for mercy. I believe that this saying in the light of calvary has a far more reaching prophecy. Paul in writing to the Philippins reminds them of the incarnation of Christ Jesus, his humility and his ultimate obedience to the death of the cross.(Phil 2:5-8) In verse 9 of the same chapter we read, that because of this (5-8) "God hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name: that at the Name of Jesus every knee should (will) bow and every tongue should (will) confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" I believe that since Christ died to atone for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) then all are responsible for his death and will be drawn to him in grace and accept his free gift of eternal life, or will reject his offer and will eventually be drawn to him in Judgment. Either way, all will bow and acknowledge that he is Lord to the glory of the Father. In my humble opinion, I believe that Jesus is teaching that the call goes out to the "whosoever" in the following verse: "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3: 14-15) Curt, I think that at times the prolem is that puny (speaking of me) humans cannot totally grasp the concept of "God Divine Will and ForeKnowledge" The reason for this I believe, is due to the fact that it is his divine will and foreknowledge and as God he does not have to share it with us. When we try to comprehend it, we usally end up asking questions such as: "is it fair?" or If he knew Why didn't he...?" I think however, that the message of the gospel which God has given to through his Son is very clear. Still pondering Robert |