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NASB | Luke 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 16:23 "In Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom (paradise). |
Subject: Where is Luke 16:19ff called a parable? |
Bible Note: Greetings Phil! Thanks for your response my friend! Allow me to touch upon your points in order of ease! :-) 1) Moses: Jude 9 does not say that Moses was raised. That word, or any form of it, never occurs in the verse. So, I'm not sure where you are getting this from. 2) Samuel: I have posted before on the state of those prior to the resurrection of Christ. Samuel, and all those who died before Christ, were in Sheol/Hades. The only point we differ on is whether or not they were conscious during this time. I beleive that Scripture says that they were conscious. 1 Sam. 28 is one strand of evidence that those who have died are still conscious in Hades. If Scripture says that "Samuel said", the I take it at face value that it was actually Samuel who said it. So, since Scripture does not say that it was a demon, I don't accept that position. 3) Sleep: This one is simple my friend. All languages use euphemisms. That is all I believe Scripture means when it says that someone 'sleeps' or 'slept with his father's'. I don't believe that this can be stretched to mean that they are unconsious. Allow me to touch upon each verse that you cite. a) 1 Kings 2:10 - 'Slept' is Strong's number 7901. It can mean to lie down, to rest, to relax, to lodge, to lie down (as in death), to lie down (as in sexual relations). Notice that this verse describe David's death, not his status after death. b) 1 Kings 11:21 - Same as above. c) 1 Kings 11:43 - Same as above. d) 1 Kings 14:20 - Same as above. e) 1 Kings 14:31 - Same as above. f) Mt. 27:52 - 'Slept' is Strongs number 2837 "koimao". It can refer to literal sleep as in Mt. 28:13, figuratively to death as here. g) 1 Cor. 15:20 - Same as above. h) Deut. 31:16 - Same as the above OT verses. i) 2 Samuel 7:12 - Same as the above OT verses. j) Ps. 13:3 - 'Sleep' is Strong's number 3462 and has pretty much the same meaning as the above. k) Dan. 12:2 - Strong's number 3462. My point is simply this: each of these words has as their primary meaning 'literal sleep'. They can then be used to describe the body of the person who has died. They appear to be sleeping. They appear to be relaxed. They appear to be resting. But, it is a euphemism, not a description of the status of their spirit after death. In fact, nothing is said about their spirits at all. However, passages like 1 Sam. 28, Luke 16:19ff, and others, do talk about the status of those who have died. According to these passage, they were conscious. If all of these other verses did not exist, I could see where your position might make sense. However, these other verses do exist. So, I take the term 'sleep' in the way that most people do - just like I would terms like (broken hearted, sunrise, downcast, ect...). These terms, and others like them, are not intended as scientific descriptions, but as poetic language used to express certain meanings. As I said, if these other passages did not exist, I could go with you on this point. But, Luke 16:19ff is not called a parable anywhere. Therefore, when Jesus said that it happened, I believe it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran 3) |