Prior Book | Prior Chapter | Prior Verse | Next Verse | Next Chapter | Next Book | Viewing NASB and Amplified 2015 | |
NASB | Luke 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 16:23 "In Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom (paradise). |
Bible Question:
Greetings Matt! Two quick points, if I may? 1) The question isn't what you believe about Luke 16:19ff. The question is what does Scripture say my friend. This passage is never identfied as a parable. Therefore, one is only speculating if one claims that it is! :-) However, there are many places where Scripture clearly says that Jesus was using a parable. So, can anyone simply claim that any passage he doesn't agree with is a parable? 2) Luke 8:10 has no relevance to Luke 16:19ff. It would be absurd to claim on the basis of this verse that everything Jesus said to anyone who wasn't one of His disciples had to be a parable. How about Mt. 12:3-8? Jesus answered the question of the Pharisees with a straight answer, not a parable! 3) Eternal Fire: Mt. 18:8 uses the adjective 'aionios' to describe the fire. This adjective only occurs 70 times in the New Testament. Your telling me that 56 of these occurances refer to things that have already ended? Which verses please? How also do you explain Mt. 25:46? "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." The same exact adjective describes both the 'life' and the 'punishment'. How can one refer to 'life' that lasts forever, but the other to a punishment that ends at some point? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
Bible Answer: Greetings Tim, The answer is that scripture says neither. But from what I can gather so far is that this chapter cant be proven either to be a parable or not a parable then, according to you. Because it sounds like you would need the story to spell it out for us. If I were to beleive that this was a true story, then the first thing I must do is take it litteraly. #1 I must beleive that Abrahams Bosom is a real place. #2 I must beleive in a Great Gulf fixed between heaven and hell. #3 I must belive that Neither Lazarus or the Rich Man spent very long in the grave, both recieved their reward immediatly after death. This would cause many false doctines to arise, such as pergatory or Christ teaching to people in hell. Also that a person would receive there verdict before a judgment. But all Christians know that there is only one day of jugment. Further I would have to find it unjust that a person who died 5000 years ago for murder has been burning 5000 years longer than someone who committed the same crime, and died yesterday. But the bible speaks of different dagrees of punishment. Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his lord's will and did not prepare, nor did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he not knowing, and doing things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Here are some thoughts of what I think match up pretty good with different dagrees of punishment and eternal fire. #1 If the fire is eternal then there cant be different dagrees of punishment. And you cant go to Abrahams Bosom,Pergatory or even Heaven without a judgment first. #2 Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame; there shall not be a coal to warm them; nor fire, to sit before it. Now lets look at Malachi 4:1-3 Mal 4:1 For behold, the day is coming, burning like a fire pot; and all the proud, and every doer of wickedness, shall be stubble. And the coming day will set them ablaze, says Jehovah of Hosts, which will not leave root or branches to them. Mal 4:2 But to you who fear My name, the Son of Righteousness shall arise, and healing will be on His wings. And you shall go out and frisk like calves of the stall. Mal 4:3 And you shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day which I am preparing, says Jehovah of Hosts. Both Isaiah and Malachi say that the wicked shall be as stubble. But Malachi goes on to say that they shall be ashes under are feet in that day. Notice that it doesnt say "as" stubble. But rather "shall be" stubble. I also notice that there are made ashes in that same day. I don't know how long the fire will last but it will go out. Just as the unquenchable everlasting fire of Sodom and Gamorah has. Maybe if the bible used the word asbestos instead of stubble turning to ashes, then I would think that it might last longer. This is not a parable that Malachi is talking about, so we must first take it litteraly. Psa 37:18 Jehovah knows the days of the upright, and their inheritance shall be forever. Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time; and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall pass, and the enemies of Jehovah shall be like the beauty of pastures; they are consumed, "like smoke they perish." The wicked will perish like smoke. Also you ask: How also do you explain Mt. 25:46? "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." In order for this verse to line up with scripture, and the wicked turning to ashes and perishing like smoke. I understand the word punishment to mean one act of God, not a continual torture(punishing). The punishment is death. The eternal part of it is that ther will be no resurrection from it either. God is just and so are his punishments. I do beleive that they will be tortured, some maybe longer than others. Such as the servant who knew better. But all will become ashes sooner or later. Please read 2Peter 2:6,Psalm 112:10,Ezek.28:11-19 for more of what I beleive of what will happen to the wicked. Just reasons why I beleive in a just God MaTT. |