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NASB | Psalm 51:5 ¶ Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Psalm 51:5 ¶ I was brought forth in [a state of] wickedness; In sin my mother conceived me [and from my beginning I, too, was sinful]. [John 3:6; Rom 5:12; Eph 2:3] |
Subject: inherit the sin of Adam |
Bible Note: Hi Doc, Again, thanks for the posts. I want to say that I do not like taking personal offense and feel confident in saying that I do not take personal offense when others disagree with me. I believe that I do take personal offense when I am personally offended. In the very paragraph that you encourage me to not take personal offense, you refer to my position as erroneous. You say you are interested in truth and present that you are as prone to error as the next man, however, in my observation (which does not include nearly the extent of your interaction on this post admittedly) I have seen you, time and time again refuse redirection from others or to accept that you are in error on any point. All the while, the majority of your post (that I have observed) are redirecting and challenging others. Now let me say that I appreciate this because one does not come to believe what they believe in light fashion. We believe what we believe because we believe it, we have been convinced of it. But then when your redirection is based on the authorities of men and councils primarily (at least as evidenced by your posts) credibility is lost. The scriptures should always be the only reference for authority and then all that other stuff is certainly legitimate for example. Doc, I don’t avoid dealing with the Scriptures you offer. I can’t really respond to this statement without understanding what you are basing this statement on. I hope it’s not to mislead others that may be following into thinking that I avoid scripture that might contradict my argument. You write: “You support your disagreement with the imputation of Adam's sin to his descendents by citing Ezek 18:20 and Mat 12:37.†Let me set the record strait for the sake of any following. Does Doc’s above statement represent accuracy? Look at what I actually wrote in the post he is referencing, copied and pasted from my actual post. I wrote: “Doc is right that the sin of Adam is imputed to each of us at conception†Doc, with these kinds of misleading accusations, the credibility thing becomes even more in question. But let’s look at Ezek 18:20 and Mat 12:37: Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. What have I missed here? You mention the importance of context so I am encouraged that you have in fact given heed to my encouragement and we do agree on this importance. So present your argument as to how I have taken this verse out of context as you insinuate I have. Furthermore, is it possible for you to present a context where Eze 18:20 does not apply and does not mean what it clearly says. Consider the words; shall and shall not. Your argument here Doc, absolutely and very thoroughly supports my whole position; this keeps happening with you. I can’t figure this type of thinking out. You write: “God is saying with great clarity, "You are suffering the captivity because of your own sin. You are the ones that are not just. You are the ones who deserve even more than what has come upon you." You write: “By using sound exegesis, you cannot come to the conclusion that Ezekiel was attempting to deny imputation.†I argue, that you have effectively made this argument yourself. Doc, please. What part of “you are suffering...because of your OWN sin†(quoted from Doc) implies imputed sin? But still you misrepresent me. I never ever presented an argument that this verse DENIES imputation. I argued that there is sin and resulting judgment that is individual and personal and not related to (save for the sin nature created by) imputed sin. You write: “Unfortunately, this passage does not suit your intended purpose. It cannot be made to say what you are asserting without quoting it outside of its original context.†Well, argument offered above more than sufficient to address this. I will respond to the remainder of your post in a separate post for lack of space here. Doc, with all love and sincerity, I’m not following you. Does anyone else have feedback? Jeff |