Results 661 - 678 of 678
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
661 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65304 | ||
eD. Direct me to 'objective' proof. School records, a paper he wrote for school... something. But you still have not responded to the fact that he and most other WOF teachers do not teach, OUR thoughts produce the results WE want. They teach the Word of God becoming my thoughts mixed with faith produces the result. Metaphysics teaches the power comes from our mind and there is no God. You can't see the difference? All have sinned and come short of God's glory. " I receive that, I am a sinner". If you repent God is faithul and just to forgive us. "I believe that and I repent" For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life. "I reeive that, I now have eternal life". That is God's way in all His promises. God said it I believe it, that settles it. (God is now obligated) |
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662 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65281 | ||
The word tempt means put God to a test. We are not to test God, we are to believe Him. Faith teachers teach to hold fast to the promise of God despite the circumstances. The teaching that we should 'always pray if it by thy will' is unscriptural. Often times prayer is not needed, but faith in His already given provision is needed. Did we pray "God save me if it be thy will" or did we pray Father forgive ma a sinner and save me. Thank you Father". Is that a demand? Is it a demand to say 'thank you Father for the salvation of my children according to your promise..' or do we pray instead " Father save my children if it be thy will?" People, we have an enemy named Satan and he is the on we tell to leave, he is the one we order out. Did not Jesus say "you go in my name (authority) and cast out the devil...etc? Did He say ask God to tell the devil to leave if it was His will? The issue her is not Faith teachers or metaphysics. it is that WE DO NOT REALIZE WHAT CHRIST DID ON THE CROSS!!!!!WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND OUR PROVISION FROM GOD THROUGH CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD!! God help us realize Jesus did not die to just provide us an eternal home in heaven after we die but He died to set us free from the powers of darkness HERE!!!! In Jesus Name |
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663 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65279 | ||
Yes but the punishment for the sinner is eternal damnation and seperation from God, not mere physical death. The point here is that if Jesus was paying our penalty likewise it could have not been mere physical death. | ||||||
664 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65278 | ||
Pastor Glenn The Bible does teach us that the Holy Spirit is our teacher and the revealer of the Word of God. You know what I think is really in question here? I wonder who on this thread believes the Holy Spirit speaks to us? Also I think christians have difficulty understanding the term covenant. A covenant is a bond between two, me and God. In this covenant (His word) He has made certain committments or promises. And with every promise is a requirement, believe and receive by faith. That is the nutshell of the faith teachers teaching that I have studied. Do you see a problem with that? My problem on this thread is getting anyone to actually discuss the teachings in light of scripture without the accusations. Kenneth Copeland has never in all my 100 teaching tapes said we are to think what we want and our mind will make it happen. He teaches believe the word of God and act by faith and God has obligated Himself through Jesus to do it. He did not obligate Himself because He had to, He obligated Himself so we would believe, Him and trust Him. This goes blatantly against the grain of the teaching that believes God does whatever He wants regardless of the Word. God made a committment to mankind but He only does His part when we do ours. Is that not true of salvation? Healing? Did you check out some of the apologetics on the website I recomended. The creater of this site tries to take a look at the faith teachings objectively without the fear and accusations, and mainly without taking the teachers statements out of context. We are all human and will not always agree, but as long as we remain teachable we can grow. As I stated before, I rely on the promise that the Holy Spirit will reveal truth and error to me as long as my heart stays focused on knowing God. When pride or fear, or a critical spirit are allowed, our objectivity becomes blinded, and we cease to grow. I want all there is for me from God because I want to be what He wants me to be....God bless |
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665 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65269 | ||
Hi John.. I like talking with you because although you do not believe the same (who does exactly) because you rely on scripture. Jesus had also just said " My God, My God why have you forsaken me". The sins of the world were taken upon him and God the Father turned away because He cannot look upon sin. It is finished was said before he died not after which is where you believe the atonement took place. I believe it is finished was the completion fo the process of sin upon him. Then he died. You did not anser my question (What is the penalty of the sinner..physical death or eternal punishment?) Actually, I find that Ed, Hank and justme all expect me to decide they are correct based on Hank H's book which so far has given no scripture to refute the teaching of faith. But I will read on.... Did you read the Apologetic I suggested? If not, why? Your sister in Christ |
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666 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65265 | ||
Pastor Glenn... The faith teachers I have listened to hold the Word of God probably in higher esteem tham most 'orthodox' faiths. They teach that God's word is God's covenant and that the faith in God's Word produces the manifestation of the promise. They view God's word as reverently as God Himself because it is God Himself in covenant. They view the covenant (New Testament) as God's covenant with man and that God obligated Himself to fulfill His promises to us if we accept them by faith. For some reason (misquotes is all I have seen so far) there is an accusation that they teach the mind over matter concept or the New Thought which Hank H. quoted in his books as me believing my thought create. But Kenneth Copeland and E.W.Kenyon teach that we are to replace our thoughts with God's word which is God's thougts. (being transormed by the renewed mind). I truly can't understand why there is so much resistence to such a simple truth. We received salvation the same way. Heard God's word, believed, God's word, obeyed God's word. Any questions? God bless. |
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667 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65264 | ||
Sorry.. Hank said he 'Majored' in metaphysics but several papers (one very critical) said he majored in theatre, and that ther is no indication that he even took a class on metaphysics, much less majoring in it. P.S. I am doing no more here than defending a professing brother who is being accused without proof..I would do the same for anyone else. It is not in my nature to regard mankind as anything but sad little humans a great God loves and shows mercy. No teacher or preacher is high on my list. But I do study....listen... and observe.... |
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668 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65262 | ||
This is what Hank says and some of his other opponents but it is my understanding that he attended Emmerson University 1 year and MAJORED (to use Hank's term) in theater. He was backsliden and not involved in religious studies at Emerson. Now if you have proof such as school records to prove this accusation they should be produced, otherwise you are judging based on hearsay. My next question is "Have you studied his work?" His own statements of faith and teachings about the integrity of the Word of God refute this. Yours in Christ Jesus |
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669 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65261 | ||
I keep hearing about this book. I read several chapters last night accusing the teaching and doctrine, mainly of Kenneth Copeland, but not the first scripture to refute the scripture laden teaching. Does't anyone find this at all alarming? As I read the chapters numerous scripture came to my mind and I had my Bible and my concordance (Strong's) and not once did Hank give me a scripture to refute the one's I had confirming the teaching. Why are people so willing to accept hearsay and accusations without researching the teachings? Do we christians pass judgement on our brothers and sisters so easily because we feel our 'theology' is threatened? I reiterate, The Pharasees did the same thing to Jesus! Where is the Berean spirit. All I have received here is warnings and incinuations about how dangerous a doctrine it is. My brothers and sisters...what teaching is so dangerous and where is your SCRIPTURAL PROOF! I love God's word and believe they are the words of life for me to live by. Yours in Christ P.S. The accusation that E.W. Kenyon Mastered in the study of metaphysics, What Hank SAID cannot be proved. Hank expects his readers to accept this accusation based on the fact that Emerson University taught metaphysics. The only guilt E.W. has here is by association. E.W.'s own words teachings refute this but you would rather believ what is said about him as opposed to what he said. It is said he majored in theatre and there is no record that he even took a metaphysics class at Emerson at all. Does anyone here know where to find his 'RECORDS'? |
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670 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65171 | ||
As Hank did so do you. When Kenneth Copeland said Satan defeated Jesus on the cross, he said that by the standards of men Satan defeated Jesus on the cross. He went on to say that by all of mans standards, God could be considered a loser. If you listen to the rest of the serman you would find out the point he was making was that God was in control from the fall of Adam, to backsliden Israel, through all the 'failures' of the kings, to Jesus 'defeat' on Calvary. All to climax at the resurrection where Satan was defeated and the keys of the kingdom were given to the church..And when things may appear to be wrong in our lives, things going wrong the circumstances are not necessarily an indication of failure. That kind of changes the 'Quote' taken out of context does it not? Kenneth Hagen was preaching on the righteousness of God which is by faith. The same righteous standing Adam had before the fall whe God came down and walked with Adam in the Garden... Is that incorrect? Does Romans teach that we are the righteousness of God through Jesus? Does not Hebrews 4:16 tell us to come boldly to the throne of Grace to find mercy and help in the time of need.? Boldly or fearfully and timidly? The reason It is so hard to truly discuss word of faith teachings is because people want to use these 'out of context' quotes. Now if any of you will get a word of faith Bible study and use that to challenge and discuss I AM ALL FOR IT. Maybe a couple of you would get E.W. Kenyons study and let's go through IT tgether. Then we may get somewhere. Then we could compare apples for apples instead of trying to convince by someone else's misquotes. What do you all say? God bless. P.S. I know all of you are sincere. So am I. |
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671 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65088 | ||
Justme: Idid read part of the book. I stopped as soon as I found several quotes taken out of context and theatrically dramatized to add emphasis to his point. I personally found the book insulting to the inteligence of the reader. Let me do some research and I will reccomend another book that refutes Mr. Hannegraff's accusations. My question to you is have you actually researched the statements in their proper text? Most people do not because it would be far to time consuming. They take his accusations as fact and do not objectively and fearlesly research the statements. As you know, many times scripture is treated the same way. A scripture taken out of context can be interpreted incorrectly. These teachers/preachers are not perfect any more than you or I, but if their basic doctrines are correct they should not be labeled heretics. Remember the Pharasees did the same to Jesus. This should serve as a warning to us that we too can be wrong. |
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672 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65079 | ||
Dear Justme.. how do you define the term cult from the christian perspective. I define a cult as any group or organization that denies the divinity of Jesus, and that He is the only way to the Father, that the Bible is not God breathed, God inspired and the final authority for all doctrine, the trinity(God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit), the virgin birth... The pastors and teachers on this site agree with this basic Chirstian foundation. The differences of scriptural interpretation do not conflict with these basic doctrines. Care to clarify your interpretation of cult? |
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673 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65075 | ||
"I would advise anyone to think twice..." John 16:12-14 I have many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself: but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come... Proverbs 11:14Where there is no counsel, the people fall: But in the multitude of counselors there is safety. God has not given us the spirit of fear... I believe we should not limit ourselves to one line of thought when the Holy Spirit begins to lead us to question and search. If our hearts desire is to know God more intimately and prayerfully research, God will reveal truth and error by the Holy Spirit. I believe much of the 'orthodoxy' is doctrines of men and not necessarily revealed truth. This is more the reason for the division among Christians than seekers who do not accept doctrine without examination in the light of the Holy Spirit. |
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674 | Did Jesus suffer in hell when he died? | Luke 23:46 | gracefull | 65073 | ||
Good morning John: John 10:11 His Sheep...I am reasonably sure we do not disagree here. Hebrews 2:5-10 ...Declares Jesus 'a little lower than the angels, and that he tasted death for all man. Mark 16:16 He that believeth shall be saved and he that believeth not shall be damned. (not exact quote) Jesus the sinless man took upon himself the punishment for the sins of all mankind.. the price has been paid for everyone, but everyone will not believe and accept His sacrifice. Jesus was God.. Absolutely, and He was also man. He was body soul and spirit just like us, and also was diety. I submit that the penalty for sin is eternal death (seperation from the Father eternally). Do we agree on that? That Adam's punishment was the severed intimate personal relationship with the Father? Why is it infathomable that the sinless lamb had to pay the same price? The difference being the fact that He was sinless and He was the second person of the diety so the grave (hell) had no legal claim to Him so it could not hold Him? 1Corinthians 2:7-9 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto glory: Which non of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. I submit that human reasoning does NOT accept that Jesus ( the man) died spiritually and Jesus (God) raised Him from the dead. Charles G. Finney states,"The divine declaration, 'if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature,' can never become, in it's full sense, a reality in actual experience, so long as Gethsemane and Calvary present a no more melting spectacle to the mind, than that of a human sufferer." I will be glad to continue this discussion, however, I have limited time so my input may be slow and limited. This was why I sent the original questioner to the apologetic because it is so indepth and could do this important subject more justice than I feel I can. But I do love sharing what I believe the Holy Spirit has shown me. God bless you, |
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675 | few chosen | Matt 20:16 | gracefull | 65069 | ||
You made a couple of good points that I really had not noticed. The landowner agreed upon wages for the first, and the others he said he would pay them whatever is right. But I think where I trip up is If this parable is 'about' children of the kingdom how does the extended statement..many are called but few chosen...I read a commentary that said the landowner was rewarding for exemplary labor of the latter and less than par performance of the first, but I don not agree with that because this implies 'earned' rather than 'grace'. Is the latter the children of grace of the new covenant compared to the children of the law under the old covenant? Ours is not 'wages' but 'generosity'. If this is the case how does many are called but few chosen fit? Are there 'chosen' among believers? Or are new covenant believers under grace the 'chosen' with chosen meaning 'receivers of grace'? | ||||||
676 | few chosen | Matt 20:16 | gracefull | 64942 | ||
Hi Ray, I usually study mainly from the King James but like the ARSV as an extention. I also refer to the New King James. But I am from the old school and prefer the King James as my final authority. I wil certainly look at the comparison passages you suggested. Thank You. PS I think this is a really good forum. the best one I have found so far. God Bless |
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677 | few chosen | Matt 20:16 | gracefull | 64940 | ||
Robert, here in this parable is clearly about salvation, but in the parable of the laborers in chapter 20 Jesus is speaking of those in the kingdom 'arriving for their reward'. This seems to be refering to believers who resent other believers for receiving the same rewards. And I just can't seem to make that last line fit unless there is a translation problem. This is why I went to the NASB and the Amplified, which helped none at all. I believe prayon may have hit on the point.Let's look further. I wil also research the Greek translation. Thanks for your help. | ||||||
678 | few chosen | Matt 20:16 | gracefull | 64939 | ||
Thank you Ed. I just checked the Amplified and it said as you said. I apreciate your time. God Bless |
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