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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
561 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | gracefull | 74188 | ||
I believe your statement is based on your predetermined conclusion. Just as there are those who say there are no 'miracles' or 'gifts of the spirit' in operation today. If I believe they have ceased, I will not accept the testimony or witness of those who believe and operate in the gifts. Each time you and I talk, you insist on having the discussion based on 'belief' rather than scripture, then get made at me when I use scripture to explain my beliefs. Why is that? |
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562 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | gracefull | 74120 | ||
Can you give me a scriptural definition of a 'pastor' or an 'evangelist'? I do not see any scriptural qualifications specified. The church organizations have defined these positions. Your question concerning the apostles being alive does answer the question being discussed. |
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563 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | gracefull | 74119 | ||
1. Acts 1:21-26 Yes these apostles claimed to be eyewitnesses...and no doubt were. They wer specifically chosen men for a specific purpose.. 2. Acts 5:32 Yes they chose a replacement who had been with them from them beginning (actually God chose but they cast lots) 3. I do not clearly see why this promotes your case. Luke says I am going to draw up my own record in the same manner as those handed down by the eyewitnesses. Luke's gospel surely is a prevalent as John's and he was not an apostle. He says nothing here regarding the office of apostle. 4. 1 Cor.9:1 Again, I have not said the apostles were not eyewitnesses. 5. 1 Cor 15:8 Yes Christ appeared to them all... " Remember that Paul used the example of building a building so we can understand this. " So based on your reasoning we see this... You are basing your entire conclusion on the structure of this passage. Paul indeed is speaking of the body of Christ the church having their foundational teaching as the baseline, held together by Christ Jesus. As I said read on to chapter 4 and explain why, if Paul was saying the apostles were the foundation, (as you concluded that was the end of apostleships) continue his letter and included apostles as necessary for the perfecting of the saints, edifying of the body, and work of the ministry? And he included apostles in his teaching to the Corinthians and in neither of these passages is there any indication that the office will be terminated. Again although as you stated and I do not disagree, the first aposltles were eyewitnesses and documented the events of our Lord's birth, life, death and resurrection, thus the scriptures. But according to Ephesians 4 and 1 Cor. 12 the office was not not eliminated, it is established, along with pastors, teachers, evangelist, and prophets... God bless God bless |
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564 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | gracefull | 74111 | ||
Ephesians 4 is a continuation of chapter 2. Remove chapter and verse and read the entire letter. 4:10 reads..He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. 11And he gave some, apostles: and some prophets: and some, evangelists: and some, postors and teachers: for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Again I see 1.Christ ascended and this followed. "And since their job was to lay the foundation for the church, their job is complete. Teacher, Pastors, and Evangelists are called to build on that foundation." 2. The work of the ministry, edifying of the body, perfecting of the saints fall under the entire list, therefore the statement that apostles were solely for the purpose of 'establishing the foundation' can't be correct. I do agree Paul states that they (apostles and prophets) established the foundation but it does not state that that was their total and only purpose. Since chapter 4 indicates otherwise I view this conclusion as an assumption. Especially since two other scriptures refute this conclusion. God bless |
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565 | Who is the "they" in this passage? | Dan 2:43 | gracefull | 74061 | ||
janjon...I think we do see where you are coming from with the myouryour thing, but is is not necessary. Jesus is MY Lord and saviour but that does not in any way mean I am saying He is any less yours. Our realationship with Him in the Holy spirit is both personal and general. I do not believe anyone would be offended if you said 'Our'or 'My'. We do see where your heart is, but the excess wording does make the post more difficult to read. God bless God bless |
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566 | JOB.thenemyenemyours'Leash | Bible general Archive 1 | gracefull | 73903 | ||
Hank. Why are you doing this? You remind me of grade school in the manner in which some were treated. Do you UNDERSTAND? I hope you will consider and appreciate God's grace and possibly view this as an opportunity to share it? God bless |
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567 | Are you being put to the test? | John 6:6 | gracefull | 73902 | ||
Hi Ray..I do not believe we are in disagreement. Let's take a look at this from a different perspective...However, I am not speaking specifically about money. In the case of the need for food and not enough money, Jesus could have just as easily chosen to multilpy the money. He was testing Phillip to see where his confidence was , in what he could see and understand (it takes money to buy food)or in Jesus the provider. " I think that since the fall we have had to work by the sweat of our faces". I believe we are to work..Paul said that if a man did not work, neither should he eat. The difference is our attitude or belief rather about our work. I should be at the job God wants me to be at and understand why He wants me there. Many are working for a living and view God as seperate. In reality we should be at the job He chose, making the income He chose, and using the money as He directs. Everything we do (our job, our family responsibilities, etc.) are to be God centered. If we are 'God in me' minded we would first ask the Holy Spirit for His wisdom and guidance in all things. Now at first when we begin to discipline our carnal nature to seek spiritual counsel on things we will feel overwhelmed because we are accustomed to just handling them ourselves and see no need to consult with God, and indeed in this busy busy world we live in we often operate on automatic pilot. Our resources are carnal, but provided by God to be used in accordance to His direction. Let's say in the matter of money, it is His and we are merely the stewards. It may be that we face a crisis such as with the need for food and not enough money or maybe there is enough money but the Lord desires us to trust Him in another way. Here in America where we can make pretty good money, I believe our tendency is to stop relying on God as our provider, and to stop asking Him what to do in situations simply because we have the resources to meet the need without Him. (As I said, it is His and we are the stewards). Let's look at the woman with the issue of blood. She spent all she had and was none the better but in fact grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she said that if she could but touch the hem of His garment she would be made whole. Now a person today may spend all they have when indeed God desired them to simply turn to Him. As I said, in America we often use our own resources before even asking God, and then when our resources are inadequate (and money can't fix broken lives)our faith is under developed and we don't know how to believe God, so we panic. "But I see nothing wrong with exhausting our resources that we have worked to acquire; the problem comes when after they are gone we begin to be "anxious". The problem I see with this is that although you realize God gave you the strength, good health, ect., to get the resources, giving the implication that we are to rely on it first then turn to God when it is gone. I suggest rather that we seek God first. As to His offering the free bread of life I agree because as it has been pointed out on the forum many times, Jesus is the perfect teacher. He knew how to demonstrate and point to the spiritual truth through carnal means and was therefore constantly giving these un born again believers something to relate to. This is why the word is alive, it is so multifaceted!!! "So we seek spiritual things, then keep working knowing (by faith) that God will provide the necessary physical things." Let's take this one more step. Working too is a spiritual thing because we are spirits and where we are God is. We are not working for provision of our physical needs. Our jobs should be viewed as our ministry(If we are sure we are where He wants us to be). He could just as easily tell you to give your entire income away and provide your needs another way. This understanding frees us from the fear of losing our job and frees us to obey the Spirit of God on our job. My point is simply this....We are not to 'depend' on our jobs as our provision, but rather view first in our mind and heart that God is the provider and the job may or may not be the means. But we should be sure we are asking and listening for God's direction first and not relying on our resources, just in case He wants to do something different, just like He wanted to do something different here. After all, if we lived somewhere where it was impossible by man's standards to make an adequate living, we would be forced to do this, but God in His grace placed you and I here and put us in a postion of choice to seek Him first in all things. As you referenced Matthew 6:33. |
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568 | God is everywhere? | Bible general Archive 1 | gracefull | 73813 | ||
Good morning Ray. When I reread the the entire passage I came to several points, and you have touched on them.... 1. The NAS translates one of the visitors as LORD which to my understanding is Jehovah. So we have Jehovah and two others (not at the beginning identified as angels). Do you see this as a possible symbolism of the trinity considering they were there and addressing the covenant? 2. Abraham is being 'tested' to speak out for the righteous, to interceed and and even respectfully question Jehovah.(he was to teach righteousness and justice to the future generations) 3. When the 'angels' arrived at Sodom there were only two and they are no longer refered to as 'men' but are now specifically called angels. the LORD (Jehovah) is no longer with them. 4. Yes, I agree that John 2:23-25 "He Himself" fits with LORD Jehovah (the absolute being) and "I am" as at the burning bush and Jusus used this in Mark 14:61-63 (which explains the extreme reaction of the priest) Yes there is the contrast/parallel The opportunity to turn and receive or reject. Same righteousness and justice. ? Why do you suppose Jehovah chose to share and offer Abraham the opportunity to speak up at this point of time? What is the significance of the covenant? God bless! |
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569 | God is everywhere? | Bible general Archive 1 | gracefull | 73742 | ||
I absolutely agree with the comparison of John 2:24, 25. As a matter of fact this morning that verse was prevalent in my thinking and I started to use the comparison but decided to wait and see if the conversation continued. However I am not sure of the contrast you speak of. Purhaps you would clarify? Jesus is the fulfillment of the promise. But I do not see a contrast in righteousness and justice. Abraham questioned if the Lord would destroy the wicked with the righteous.. and indeed interceeded for them. I do not understand the question/observation of choosing between angels and the Lord. Please clarify your response God bless |
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570 | Why did Job love God? | Job | gracefull | 73586 | ||
Than you for sharing this with me. I was reminded of Romans 8:25-28 as I read your heart... But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it. In the same way the Spirit helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. First, our feelings do not always represent what is going on in our heart. The times I feel far from God only serves to remind me circumstances and my flesh are still temporal factors in my carnal life, but the reborn spirit connected with the Holy Spirit of God is more real and eternal. I am a spirit, I have a soul and I live in a body. Do you pray in tongues? If so, when this grieving comes, pray in the Spirit, if you have not been already...Growth can seem bitter sweet but the joy of the eternal sweet far exceeds the the temporal pain. To allow God to create in us a soft heart makes us feel vulnerable, but in reality it frees us and allows God to become our protector. If you would like, I can give you my e-mail address. God bless You can e-mail me at franh@tvsa.com |
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571 | Why did Job love God? | Job | gracefull | 73510 | ||
I have read but not participated in this discussion until now.... Your honest statement brought compassion. As thomas has addressed the method of salvation, the surrender of our heart as we realize we are sinners in need of a saviour. Was their a change? Not an external change of activities, but a change of heart? If yes.. When we come to the Lord we are children. Our relationship is that of a child coming to the parent for all our needs. Children do not KNOW the parents, but simply accept them as the provider. Then as they begin to grow up they begin to recognize the parent as both provider and disciplinarian. Then they eventually get through this stage to adulhood and begin to have a relationship based on respect and knowing. 1Peter 2:2 Our relationship with our Father is much like that. Initially we see Him as our 'provider' especially at times of trouble. But when we spend time with Him consistently in His word and prayer, we begin to KNOW Him. Many believers remain in childhood for various reasons.. But since you have made this statement, it would seem you have begun to mature. (Awareness of the lack of in depth relationship and awareness that such a relationship is possible is a GIANT step). Will you move forward in seeking Him or draw back? FEAR NOT! He loves you. Remember John 3:16 God bless |
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572 | Why was Satan allowed amon the sons of G | Job | gracefull | 73410 | ||
Thanks for your response. Revelation 12:9-11 Is this the time when Jesus entered heaven? If so, the accuser has been cast out of heaven and can no longer go before the throne and accuse? |
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573 | Why was Satan allowed amon the sons of G | Job | gracefull | 73406 | ||
Why would God need or choose to prove anything to Satan? Was it because Satan 'accused' Job? |
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574 | Take up your Cross ? | NT general Archive 1 | gracefull | 73404 | ||
To take up our cross means.. Submission to the design, plan, purpose of God for your life and laying down you own design, plan, and purpose. Death to your will and submission to His will. This is not a haphazard movement, but a determined focused walk. The scripture says if any man take up 'his cross'. Galatians 2:19-21 God bless |
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575 | can anyone explain ? Mat 25.24 | Matt 25:24 | gracefull | 73370 | ||
Thank you. That scripture has now blessed me! He will circumcise the heart of my seed!!!!! I too prayed this morning for a refreshing of the Holy Spirit like a 'new garment' pleasing to my Father! Acts 3:18-20 Refreshing from the presence of the Lord! God bless |
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576 | Do demons still exist? | Matt 8:16 | gracefull | 72614 | ||
Good morning. From my discussions on this subject cessationist from previous posts declair that Mark 16:17 was not in the original text and therefore is not to be relied upon. I can't accept this because I believe this teaching discredits confidence in the entire scriptures. I agree with you that the promise that these signs shall follow them that believe definitely discredits the belief that the gifts left with the apostles. These signs shall follow them that BELIEVE In my name they shall cast out devils. 1. Signs shall FOLLOW 2. Believe 3. In my name (under Jesus Lordship and authority) 4. They SHALL CAST out DEVILS. God bless |
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577 | Divine Healing, True or False? | Matthew | gracefull | 72424 | ||
Me to... | ||||||
578 | Divine Healing? | Matthew | gracefull | 72423 | ||
Hi Jestified, You are not alone... I had this same conversation with all the same arguments just in the last month on another thread. I almost joined here yesterday but after reading the discussions I realized the same arguments were coming at you that came at me. I will look up that thread # because there was two particular posts that caused me to close the discussion. One post questioned the statement that Isaiah 53 1Peter 2:24 being for both physical healing as well as spiritual. I will not state the response without the exact quote, but it closed the debate for me.(Not because I agreed, but because it conveyed the message that the debate was futile) You have had this same argument. I went back to a simple word study and found the Greek word translated Healed in 1 Peter is the same Greek word as James 5:16 (call for the elders...)and Mark 5:29(the woman healed from the issue of blood) and 1Peter is cross referenced to Isaiah...and the Hebrew word healed in Isaiah 53 means 'to be made whole'.Since we are spirit, soul and body, all three must be healed to be made whole. I too believe that healing was provided through the atonement. God bless |
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579 | Finding 'Act as though you have faith' | Bible general Archive 1 | gracefull | 72316 | ||
If one must 'achieve it' it is no longer grace, but works. Romans 11 2 Timothy 1:8-10 |
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580 | psalm 91 | Psalm | gracefull | 72312 | ||
See also Psalm 15... Who shall dwell? And Hebrews 8.... |
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