Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | Jim Estes | 205569 | ||
Doc, Someone, at sometime, must have made the decision that when Jesus gave the only sign that he was the Messiah by saying “three days and three nights” that it was an idiom. I read John Gill on the subject concerning Matthew 12:40 wherein he took it as an idiom that when Jesus was placed into the tomb just before sunset, that counted as a full day and night, Saturday counted as a full day and night and whatever time Jesus may have been in the tomb on Sunday was the 3rd day and night. So what Jesus really said was “as Jonah was one day and one night and parts of two other days in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be between 24 hours, 2 minutes and 72 hours in the heart of the earth.” This is the only sign Jesus said that he would give that he was the Messiah! 2 Peter 1:20 states, “But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation. . .” John Gill does not back up his interpretation with scripture; therefore it does not comply with the requirement of 2 Peter 1:20. My question remains, what scriptures interpret “three days and three nights” to mean anytime between 24 hours, 2 minutes and 72 hours? Thank you for your assistance. Jim |
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2 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | Tamara Brewington | 205572 | ||
Dear Jim, Hi there guy! We have to accept first what scripture said, scratch our proverbial heads a bit and then try to make sense of what the words meant to them when it was wriiten to them, not what it means to us reading it now. Fact - Jesus said Jonah was in the belly of the sea monster for three days and three nights, that makes that part fact, right? Fact - Jesus said He too would be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights, that makes that part fact, right? Okay now turn to Mark 15:42-47 - Jesus was buried the day before Sabbath could begin, the Sabbath begins on Saturday, so Jesus was buried on Friday. Look down at Mark 16:1-6 - Mary and the women came on the first day of the week to anoint Jesus and get told, He is risen that morning of the first day of the week. That is Jesus in the tomb before the sun went down - Now, see John 18:28 - The Jews wanted to hurry up and get Jesus crucified before sundown so they could eat the Passover with clean hands. So Jesus was crucified before the sun went down on Friday and got up sometime early Sunday morining that is a fact. But you have to look at the fact of that time frame of from Friday evening to Sunday morning and realize Jesus could not be mistaken about it being three days and three nights no matter how it looks. So the question is never did He get crucifed on Thursday (did not say you said that), He did not the text shows He did not. The only possible question there could be is what did Jesus mean by three days and three nights? It has to be exact, but it also has to fit the real time frame of being somehow not three full days, right? It is exact and it does fit the time frame. Here is why... The New Testament is written in Greek, Jesus spoke Aramaic. Whatever the Aramaic word for day that Jesus used Mathew knew what He meant by the word day. Mathew chose a word, the Greek word Hemera, number 2250 in the Strong's - it's actualy translated as literally - the time space between light and dark, or the whole twenty four hours, figuratively a period of time as any part of a day. So if you look at that very real definition there is no reason why we can't understand what Jesus was really saying in light of what really happened. What Jesus actually was saying was accurate when you factor in that what He meant was figuratively a period, not twenty four hour periods. This issue is about a figure of speech, it has to do with the use of the word Hemera as being it's last listed meaning - a figurative period. You are wondering what in the heck I am saying by now aren't you because it does not seem to add up yet does it? Here is what we now have to turn to to understand how Jews calculated time in Jesus day. This is fact, not speculation, not conjecture, the Jews did count any part of a day as constituting the whole day, this is an historical fact. When we go back to the beginning, Moses uses the word Yowm in Genesis to describe a day. The definition of Yowm number 3117 is - the warm hours, from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next, or figuratively a space of time. When Moses used the word he meant night and day a twenty four hour day, but the word can mean a figurative space of time as any part of that day as well. Let's look at Mathew 17:23 and they will kill Him and He will be raised on the third day." Again Jesus uses the word Hemera as that any part of each of the three days constitutes a day unto itself and therfore it is correct that He rose on the third day whether they were three twenty four periods or parts of days. Mark 4:35 the word Hemera is used to describe part of a day - On that day, when evening came, etc. That the word Hemera can mean part of a day and not the whole day is not an idiom as John Gill purports but is a correct translation of the word Hemera as used by Jesus to mean part of a day as being one day. It is not about what scripture can intrepret that three days and three nights means 24 hours, 2 minutes, and 72 hours. It is about that Jesus meant part of one day as counting for a full day according to the Greek meaning of the word Hemera. Hope this helped, Tamara |
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3 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | Jim Estes | 205627 | ||
Hi Tamara, Many thanks for your response and effort in answering my question. You said “Fact - Jesus said He too would be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights, that makes that part fact, right?” Correct, I agree. You said “Okay now turn to Mark 15:42-47 - Jesus was buried the day before Sabbath could begin, the Sabbath begins on Saturday, so Jesus was buried on Friday. Yes, Jesus was buried just as the Sabbath was to begin. (Luke 23:54) However, this was not the weekly Sabbath observed on Saturday. This was the Sabbath that took place on the first day of the Passover feast. This Sabbath could occur on any day of the week. (John 19:31) There were two Sabbaths that week. This is why it was possible for the women to buy spices after the Passover Sabbath and prepare them before the Saturday Sabbath. You said, “Look down at Mark 16:1-6 - Mary and the women came on the first day of the week to anoint Jesus and get told, He is risen that morning of the first day of the week.” Please read that again. It says, “He has risen; He is not here; behold, here is the place where they laid Him.” It does not say he arose that morning. Mark 16:9 says “Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.” My understanding is the New Testament Greek is without punctuation. The punctuation was added by translators. It could just as easily read, “Now after He had risen, early on the first day of the week He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.” You said, “What Jesus actually was saying was accurate when you factor in that what He meant was figuratively a period, not twenty four hour periods. This issue is about a figure of speech, it has to do with the use of the word Hemera as being it's last listed meaning - a figurative period.” I don’t think Jesus would state it that way when this was to be the only sign he would give the Jews that he was the Messiah. John 11:9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. Thanks again, Jim |
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4 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | Tamara Brewington | 205632 | ||
Dear JIM, I hear you loud and clear, but then what is your account for the time? Are you saying this was a Thursday crucifixion? Help me to understand please what you mean and not what I think.. God Bless, Tam |
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5 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | skccab | 205638 | ||
Hi Tamara, Could I add my 2cents in here? In the Mishna Tractate Pesahim there is comment on Galilean "tradition" to the observance of Passover; it's called seudah maphashket which actually means "last supper." The Galilean firstborn sons would eat this pseudo (spell?) Passover meal the first hour of Passover (the one in question would be Weds night 5-7pm ish). If this is what took place then work the days amd the math and everything works out exactly as recorded in the gospels, right down to the fact that the next day the 15th (or 7ish on Thur evening) is the beginning of Matza and that is also considered a "festival sabbath" (Lev. 23:5-7) with many of the same do's and don't's as the 7th day sabbath, (such as handling a corpse, so that alone should give us pause to think, if they buried Him on Fri it was still considered a sabbath????). Just as the Galileans had their traditions, so did the Judean and Samaritan Jews, and probably each group knew of the others' traditions and that might be why it is not mentioned in detail in the gospels, cos they were Galilean Jews writing to mostly other Jews about a Galilean Jew. I, myself, don't know if this is the way it was or not, (I don't subscribe 100 percent to it but I don't throw it off as not a possibility, either). It is food for some thought. You think? Cheri |
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6 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | Tamara Brewington | 205639 | ||
Dear Cheri, You spelled everything real good Cheri as to how things work! Could you explain more according to this that you have written about the actual timing of this thing? Need help understanding. I realize you might be at work, get back when you can Cheri... God Bles, Tam |
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7 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | skccab | 205641 | ||
Sure Tam I'll be glad to. Weds 13th (we'll say 7pm is sundown) so 7pm becomes (to the Jews as good as) Thu this seudah maphashket is eaten by firstborns to commerorate the ones who were in danger on that first Passover. During the evening of Weds 13th into early morning Thurs 14th Messiah is betrayed, tried, found guilty and crucified (that around 9ish). Approx 3pm Thurs 14th He dies. (Also around 3pm on this day the passover lambs are actually slaughtered, what timing, huh?) Thurs 14th 7pm becomes the new day, Feast of Matza, and a festive sabbath Thurs 7pm begins Night 1 Fri 5am (this is our sunrise time :-) ) begins Day 1 Fri 7pm begins Night 2 Sat 5am begins Day 2 Sat 7pm begins Night 3 Sun 5am begins Day 3 On this do we know what time He actually arose? I don't know if we do, is why I'm asking. It is agreed by most that Jews consider any part of a day as a day - so there you have it. I think this is possible? The main thing though IS that He DID die and rise again and ascended to the right hand of the Father to ever intercede for me and you and all of us. Cheri |
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8 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | Tamara Brewington | 205643 | ||
Dear Cheri, I agree the substance of the thing is the most important part above the consideration of timing here or trying to understand what Jesus said and what it meant. Here is a question about that timing and explanation you got there... If any part of a day constitutes a day, then why could it not be that; He was crucified Friday morning before the Saturday Sabbath begins, dies before sundown and is buried before 7 at night. He is in the grave by 7 on Friday night when the Sabbath begins counting as day one. He lays in the grave all Saturday and this counts as day two. He lays in the grave through 7 on Saturday night which counts as the beginning of day three and therefore this counts as one whole day. He gets up sometime before Mary arrives still in day three. In this way because any part of a day constitutes a whole day He indeed stays in the grave three days and three nights because any part of a day counts as one twenty four hour period? I don't know what you think of this and please like others in here that mean no harm, but don't understand why I always seem to say something different than what is presented to me, please don't take this as disputing your point or arguing or disagreeing. I am only trying to understand you, but also to see what the Bible actually meant to say... God's Day To You, Tamara |
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9 | Idiom? | Bible general Archive 4 | skccab | 205645 | ||
Hiya Tam Fri am day 1 fri pm night 1 sat am day 2 sat pm night 2 sun am day 3 where is night 3 doesn't Messiah say "as Jonah was...three days and three nights in the belly...so shall the Son of man be..."? or am I remembering that wrong? But my main understanding is in the Fri part this was considered a sabbath - the first and last days of Unleavened Bread are sabbaths - not 7th day sabbaths where absolutely no work is to be done but sabbaths, festive sabbaths where some work (such as preparing the meal, cleaning a bit for guests) could be done - but the major things to not do on a 7th day sabbath would still hold true, such as not doing your livelyhood job, not touching a corpse, etc. So, I personally, have to reconcile that. Shalom Cheri |
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