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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hypocrite and refused to be saved same? | Bible general Archive 3 | jlhetrick | 192390 | ||
jesusfreak- Just a thought and response to your post here. I'm not sure why you and others might interpret this passage as teaching "excommunicating"? There is nowhere in Scripture that I am aware where Christians are given the authority to "excommunicate" another Christian. I am well aware that certain groups have somewhere along the continuum taken upon themselves such authority and or assigned it to the church- but I don't find it in Scripture and certainly not in this passage. If the Lord has saved one and included him/her into the family, there's no hope (even if some would desire it) that any man might expel them. Please refer to Romans 8:31-39. I believe the lesson here is one of Paul's teaching the spiritual truth of these issues. That is, a christian is certainly capable of sinning and even for a time allowing sin to prevail. The church has a scripturally supported responsibility to apply discipline to these situations (see Matthew 18:15-17ff). See also 2 Thess. 3:6-7. My understanding is that we are to love our brothers/sisters in Christ to include exposing sin and following a responsible method of helping him/her to correct it. What Paul seems to warn against is a temptation to try and change another. We have to keep in mind that it is only the Father who calls and the Spirit who draws and creates the change within us. The biblically supported discipline carried out by the church is strictly limited to the holding up of the standards of truth in Scripture alone. If the sinning Christian is unwilling to respond to that, a man certainly has no power over him. Beyond the scriptural approach, the matter should be left to God. We can not pull a man from his sin, but perhaps the resulting destruction caused by that sin might turn his heart back toward the Lord. Furthmore, I can say with some certainty that there is no time frame (be it 'a few months or in some cases a year') in which the process should be held in consideration. Rather, there is a clear sequence of events (again refer to Matt chapter 18). We can't be in the business of setting periods of time in which we will tolerate the sin and then finally divorce the person from the family. Hope this is somehow helpful, Jeff |
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2 | Hypocrite and refused to be saved same? | Bible general Archive 3 | tron613 | 192391 | ||
Not sure if excommunication is the word or if that is what is implied here, but it does say to "deliver him over to satan" and "not to associate with immoral people" do you interpret this to mean put them out of the church or just ignore them and not associate with them in the church. | ||||||
3 | Hypocrite and refused to be saved same? | Bible general Archive 3 | jlhetrick | 192413 | ||
tron- welcome to the Forum! I understand this to mean that we are to not attempt to do what only God can do. We hold to our responsibilities in discipline only to the degree established by Scripture. The church isn’t ours, it is Gods. How do you, I, or anyone else “excommunicate” someone from it? We can’t. If one is not saved, he/she is not a true part of Christ’s church. If he/she is saved, that person is forever a part of Christ’s church. So where does that leave us? We carry out the discipline as prescribed by Scripture. If a person is unwilling to respond appropriately it is a spiritual matter that is beyond our control. In other words, it’s in God’s hands alone. 2 Th 3:6 (NASB) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. We may be dealing with semantics here regarding the word “excommunicate”. In the more traditional use of the word I understand it in terms of divorcing the member from the family if you will. In a more literal sense of withholding some degree of membership rights I would be more in agreement with jesusfreak. I understand the gist of what Paul was saying in the following manner. We should first agree that Paul is referring to Christians as he referred to them as “brothers”. Next we agree, I believe, that these brothers have received corrective redirection but have not responded in accordance with the principles of Paul’s teaching and other Scripture. Certainly, in this case, I agree that there would be a degree of “withholding” regarding, perhaps, assistance, roles and responsibilities that these “unruly” Christians might otherwise have access to (as 2Th 3:10 plainly stipulates). I have that same rule in my home. My adult children have been granted the privilege of calling my house their home under the condition they are either working and contributing, or full-time students. Without one of these being true, they are not welcomed to live here long-term (of course other things such as sickness, etc. would be exceptions). They might lose certain privileges but would not cease to be part of the family and in every other point included, loved, and cared for. Idleness is a significant theme here as is in Paul’s writing. So, in my understanding it is more than a simple ignoring them, it is as much an effort to not become like them. Not condoning and not approving of the inappropriate behaviors, nor passively allowing them to continue. I believe most of us would agree that there would be a conceivable situation where the local church would be appropriate in insisting a member not participate in functions and/or even attend. I believe that this would be what Paul speaks too when talking about “turning one over to Satan”. Again, is this discussion a matter of semantics? If so I’m partly to blame. My experience with the term “excommunication” has to do more with a certain legalistic “denomination” who literally, officially divorces members from the church by virtue of a self-imposed authority not attributed by God and Scripture. My attempt here is to not allow that to be considered scriptural on the forum. I hope I have been more specific in explaining my understanding on this matter. God bless, Jeff |
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